[Tennesseestorm]

No problem. Yeah, this kinda gives you an idea of what the car looked like when new. THIS one was a very nice looking car, especially considering it was new, too bad it did not stay that way. They trashed it- big time. Over on the lobby, I told someone that they should have crashed a plain-jane Catalina, rather than a nicely optioned Grand Ville. It would have made more sense "budget wise", being a cheaper car. Someone said that afterward, that the Grand Ville was probably crushed, especially if Pontiac had donated the car for the film. I personally thought all that would have been repairable, but it would have been costly. New doors, front clip, and quarter panels.

Yeah, I think that the "options" on these cars (as well as most all early-mid 70s cars) is what makes then so unique. So many are so differently optioned... one may have "this and that", while another may have "that and this and maybe a that".

Yeah, when you get it, I would be very interested to see photos of it, to see how it is so equipped. I will tell you in advance that auto climate control A/C (not standard A/C), power seat, rear window defrost, tape player, power trunk release, handling package, air level suspension and cornering lights seem to be the "rarest" options on these cars.

The most common options seems to be power windows, vinyl top, AM radio, standard A/C.

Keep us posted.

Originally Posted by michaeld

Thanks for posting the pics, Tennessee, just because they give me another look - or two - at the Grand Ville. It's quite a pretty car. I really like its lines.

I wasn't all that interested in the option package until Tennesseestorm brought it up. Now I'd like to know. I'll quiz John the next time I talk to him.
Mike

[455Grandville]

michaeld, I wouldnt want a 6.3, gas prices these days makes me think twice. I can tell you that your car should be pretty reliable after you check it over. I drove a '76 Bonneville for years, including commuting to work for years, and cross country trips. Car never left me on the side of the road.

[michaeld]

Yeah, I'll be sure to post with pics after I've got her home and cleaned up (after all, if I don't want you to take my picture until I've combed my hair, the least I can do is wash my car before taking its picture).

I'll try to list the options as soon as I'm able. I'll also take pics of the car inside and out, so you might spot some options I don't know to list.

The one option I know for sure is color. I'm personally not tooo excited about the yellow body and the white top, as my favorite car color is black, and my next favorite is the next closest color to black, and so on. You can imagine how far down my list yellow and white would be. I suppose I should complain. After all, $450 for a car is a lot of money - or at least it was back in NINETEEN-0-7. Near-beggars can't be choosers.

At the same time, the only way I would ever repaint a car is if it actually NEEDED repainting. If the factory yellow is in decent condition, factory yellow she stays.

I've gotta agree about the 6.3s. Lovely machines, but too rich for my blood to maintain. The 6.9 suspension is actually pretty reliable, but when it does need repairs, ouch. I priced compared some 455 parts to some 6.9 parts, and found the Pontiac parts were on average less than 1/5th the price with some being considerably less than that. That'll be nice.

My number one "list-topper" trait for my cars is DURABILITY/RELIABILITY. If this Grand Ville gives me that, I will keep it for years, yellow or not.

I read that the Grand Villes got 11 mpg according to the EPA. Not much different from a full-size SUV. When I gas the Grand Ville up, I'll remember what I paid for it.

[455Grandville]

You could probably pull 13 - 16 mpg on the highway if the car is geared tall and you're on reasonably flat ground.

PontiacDave - From the pics of your Grandville, you could probably buff that paint out. Buddy of mine used to detail cars, he would use some special waxes dealerships use (3M was one of them) with a high speed buffer (not those $20 Wally World ones) You have to be careful with the high speed ones not to burn the paint, but the difference is night & day.

[Tennesseestorm]

One good thing is that it is a rare color on these cars and that should make it a bit more special.

I am not wild about the color on mine either. Its "burnished brown" ( I think ), with a black top. I personally like the dark blue, with light blue vinyl top.

I would also like the white exterior, with dark blue interior/top, but I do not recall seeing any 73' Grand Ville 4dr that was white/blue.

Originally Posted by michaeld

I'm personally not tooo excited about the yellow body and the white top, as my favorite car color is black, and my next favorite is the next closest color to black, and so on. You can imagine how far down my list yellow and white would be.

[michaeld]

455Grandville raises an interesting question in my mind: what IS the differential ratio on the Grand Villes? Were different rear ends listed as options? Were different trannies listed as options? For that matter, was any engine other than the 455 an option for the Grand Villes (I happen to know that mine will be a 455, but could it have been otherwise from the factory?)?

Teneesseestorm,
Well, yellow COULD have been rare because no one wanted it even back then, and why should people have changed their minds since? Still, at LEAST it's a primary color, and not some off the wall shade. The car will start looking prettier and prettier to me if the engine purrs like a kitten and pulls like a bull.

Tweetie-bird yellow or cow-pie-brown? Gotta wonder what some people were thinking when they chose the colors of their new cars. I mean, didn't they contemplate posterity, and what future generations would think?

[455Grandville]

455/Thm 400 was the only engine/tranny; I think dual exhaust was optional.
As far as compression it's listed around 8.2 :1 however, I have found factory ratings to be off quite a bit at times, mine is what I call "Farm tractor" compression 7.6 :1. My new 455 is right at 9.4 :1 so it should be more powerful.
As far as rear end goes - most luxurycars were tall geared Id guess between 3.23 to 2.56. After the '73 Fuel crisis cars were really geared tall for fuel economy.

[soon2b2ltmp]

Originally Posted by michaeld

Tweetie-bird yellow or cow-pie-brown? Gotta wonder what some people were thinking when they chose the colors of their new cars. I mean, didn't they contemplate posterity, and what future generations would think?

It was the seventies man.

[michaeld]

soon2b2ltmp,
Does that mean we should lump people's choice in auto paint colors with Jimmy Carter and disco? Oh, well. People did SOME things right in the 70s; you can't expect them to bat .1000.

455Grandville,
Did you recently measure your engine at 7.6:1, or have you found literature that cites that degree of compression variance? I've always thought that most engines simply lost compression over time as the piston rings began to wear (among other wear factors, such as cam wear). Thus your compression may have originally been quite close to spec, and then gone down as the engine aged. I've never heard of OEM "new car" compression varying that widely, but then again there's a LOT of things I haven't heard!

You know how some new cars just seem to be lemons from day one? If what you are saying about compression varying that much is the case on new cars today, I wonder if compression testing would be a good "lemon spotter" test? A compression test is, after all, one of the great barometers of the health of an engine. Buy a new car, find low compression, take that sucker back before it peters out on you.

I also didn't realize that the 73 455 spec was 8.2:1; I'd read that it was 8.0:1. A LITTLE higher is better, so that's good.

Now, you're saying that dual exhaust was optional? Why on earth would anybody want a restricted exhaust system when they could have dual? Oh, shoot, probably the same kind of guy who'd want a "Tweety-bird yellow" car, vote for Jimmy Carter, and dance the night away!

So now you KNOW the first thing I'll be checking is for dual exhaust. That's become my number one favorite Grand Ville option.

[Pontiacdaver]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

PontiacDave - From the pics of your Grandville, you could probably buff that paint out. Buddy of mine used to detail cars, he would use some special waxes dealerships use (3M was one of them) with a high speed buffer (not those $20 Wally World ones) You have to be careful with the high speed ones not to burn the paint, but the difference is night & day.

Brad, unfortunately the paint is weather-checked, so an easy sand and repaint will probably have to be removed all the way down to bare metal to make sure it doesn't crack the new paint. I'm not complaining, the car was still a great deal. Dave

[Pontiacdaver]

Originally Posted by Tennesseestorm

One good thing is that it is a rare color on these cars and that should make it a bit more special.

I am not wild about the color on mine either. Its "burnished brown" ( I think ), with a black top. I personally like the dark blue, with light blue vinyl top.

I would also like the white exterior, with dark blue interior/top, but I do not recall seeing any 73' Grand Ville 4dr that was white/blue.

I think the color may be Mesa Tan, it is not yellow, but more a Mustard (yech) color. Remember, the psychadelic drug users of the '60s were now the designers of the '70s. I found a decent paint code site, with computer color chips; http://www.paintcodes.net/. There is a '74 posted here (it is actually on a demo-derby site) that is White with a Blue vinyl top, and has most of the rare options you described (that I could see in the pics he sent me, the only interior one showed the speedo, but I could see the gauges, and the climate control wheel); cornering lights, climate control A/C, rally gauges and trip odo, electric rear window defrost. It is in Ohio, looks to be in decent shape, shows 69K miles, and he is asking $1500.00.

Michaeld,
I agree duals should be standard, but the bottom line is if they could make something optional, that most buyers would add, they make more money over the base price. One thing that is very different from then to now is everything is packaged now, if you want power windows, you have to buy the "convenience package" with power windows, locks, seat, etc. And most of the big ticket items from then; A/C, power accessories, radio are now all standard, although you can upgrade.

Even though the color I am thinking of is pretty (I hate to say it) ugly, for what you'll have in it, you can always have it repainted to suit you. Or, if originality is a primary concern, perhaps it will grow on you....remember, a lot of ugly colored cars have been painted Black or Red, so most people respond to colors they don't often see. Me, I'd keep it original. Dave

[michaeld]

Pontiacdaver,
Thanks for giving that site; it's nice to be able to check out paint by manf/model year.

I'm thinking it could just as easily be "sunlight yellow." John DID describe the paint as "mustard yellow." But it kind of depends on what kind of mustard one likes. Sunlight yellow would be your garden variety bright yellow mustard, and mesa tan would be more of a Grey Poupon. I might print out your color chart and ask John to point out which one the car matches.

Color preferences are definitely subjective: I actually kind of LIKED that mesa tan - at least the chip. I'll have to see the car to know what it looks like. And yes, it is very easy to blame some of the car paint options on "psychedelic drugs." Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

I wouldn't paint the car unless the condition of the paint required it (and I don't believe it will). First of all, you're pouring money into something that is impractical and unnecessary; and second, it actually REDUCES the value of a car to paint over OEM. As I said earlier in the thread, if the car runs great, I will love the color. I have a fundamentally practical nature.

[455Grandville]

Every engine I machined varied a little on the combustion chamber CC - think of thousands being milled - youre likely to see some variance - so the compression will vary as well. As far as duals - maybe some buyers wanted a quieter luxury car ?

Pontiacdaver - sad truth is a good paint job is expensive. I wont repeat what it's costing me to have the Macks cab/hood/fenders done my wife just
might end up reading this.
Yessir, in the old days option packages were few & far between. Everything was individual. You didnt buy one package & get alot of power options; you ordered them individually. That probably made cars more unique as oppsed to the only options these days is a few groups.

[Pontiacdaver]

Originally Posted by michaeld

Pontiacdaver,
Thanks for giving that site; it's nice to be able to check out paint by manf/model year.

I'm thinking it could just as easily be "sunlight yellow." John DID describe the paint as "mustard yellow." But it kind of depends on what kind of mustard one likes. Sunlight yellow would be your garden variety bright yellow mustard, and mesa tan would be more of a Grey Poupon. I might print out your color chart and ask John to point out which one the car matches.

Color preferences are definitely subjective: I actually kind of LIKED that mesa tan - at least the chip. I'll have to see the car to know what it looks like. And yes, it is very easy to blame some of the car paint options on "psychedelic drugs." Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

I wouldn't paint the car unless the condition of the paint required it (and I don't believe it will). First of all, you're pouring money into something that is impractical and unnecessary; and second, it actually REDUCES the value of a car to paint over OEM. As I said earlier in the thread, if the car runs great, I will love the color. I have a fundamentally practical nature.

Michael,

The easiest way to find out for sure is to have John look at the tag under the hood on the upper firewall. The paint code will be listed there, then you can check it on that site and find out what it is.
I will say that none of those colors on the site look much like their actual counterparts, my 74 is Admiralty Blue, but there it looks more like Regatta Blue. If there is an older auto parts store in your area that sells paint, they might have original R-M or Dupont paint chips. If there is any automotive swap meets around, there are usually vendors that sell original sales literature (also on eBay), one item is the "Colors & Interiors" brochure, it shows actual chips in it, I have a 74 and a 76, but Mesa Tan was only used in 73. Of couse, it may better to wait until you see it for the first time.
Dave

[Tennesseestorm]

Ahhh, the lovely "earth-tone" colors of the late 60s and early 70s.

Originally Posted by michaeld

Teneesseestorm,
Well, yellow COULD have been rare because no one wanted it even back then, and why should people have changed their minds since? Still, at LEAST it's a primary color, and not some off the wall shade. The car will start looking prettier and prettier to me if the engine purrs like a kitten and pulls like a bull.

Tweetie-bird yellow or cow-pie-brown? Gotta wonder what some people were thinking when they chose the colors of their new cars. I mean, didn't they contemplate posterity, and what future generations would think?

[Tennesseestorm]

Thats what I love so much about the old cars... so many were so differently optioned.... you got what options you wanted.. nothing more. These days, in order to get ONE option you want, you may have to get 10 that you do not want. This seems to have changed around the 1980s and has only gotten worse.

I think it is laziness on the auto makers and dealers part. Less "options" and less "decisions" make it easier for THEM, as well as more money (in most cases).

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

in the old days option packages were few & far between. Everything was individual. You didnt buy one package & get alot of power options; you ordered them individually. That probably made cars more unique as oppsed to the only options these days is a few groups.

[michaeld]

Hey guys,

I'm leaving tomorrow to bring the Grand Ville home. I'll be incommunicado for the next five days, but when I post back it'll be with PICTURES. That's right; for the price of an online connection, you can view pictures of my lovely new car (okay, well, maybe it aint so new, and I only hope it's lovely, but still!).

That means that in a couple of days, I will be in the best possible position to assess which options this car has (i.e. LOOKING at it with my own two eyes). My pics will hopefully be detailed enough so that you will be able to spot what options she's got, and which ones she's lacking.

How does "U.S.S. Thunderthighs" sound for a name? And what rank do you have to be to drive a ship this big?

[soon2b2ltmp]

Thunderthighs sounds too (thighmaster-ish). Mine is the USS Bonne Homme Richard. Captain is the appropriate rank for the size of our cars. Lemans and GTO's are Lieutenants......


Have a safe journey!

[Pontiacdaver]

I call mine the "Admiral" (color is Admiralty Blue) since it is bigger than my 76 Grand Prix, and I've called it the "Commander 5" for years, as a tribute to my Grandfather, who served in the Navy during WW II. He reached the rank of Commander when he retired. I guess we are all on the same page when referring to our big Pontiacs. Dave

[michaeld]

Not going for "Thunderthighs," huh? Back to the drawing board.

I would want a moniker that conveys a little tongue-in-cheekness about the fact that it IS a boat. I'm just glad I'm not in the location I was last year, when I would have been faced with the prospect of finding a place to parallel park this behemoth on a curvy street!

It would be interesting to know what the longest OEM non-limosine/hearst cars have been. Nineteen feet has got to be in contention! It is both longer and wider than my Caddy Brougham (which was 18'4").

So if I want a promotion to admiral I have to get at least two of them, huh (i.e. a fleet)?

soon2b2ltmp (does that mean you're about to become a butterbar in the MPs? Just a crazy guess!), I was wondering: I saw pics of your Catalina police cruiser. It looks real nice. But just out of curiosity, when and where can you drive that? Are you a police officer? I'd think if I tried to drive that around, I'd get pulled over for impersonating a police officer. Now, you see, it leads me to think that if you WERE a police officer, it would make sense for you to possibly serve in the Nat'l Guard or Reserve as an MP. And if you were going through the requirements to become commissioned, you'd then be a "2ltmp." So I might be wrong, but it seems like a logical guess! If you ARE, then God bless you. I have one word for our soldiers the past five years: MAGNIFICENT!
BTW, thanks for the send off. Will try to drive safe.