[Holeshot71]

Maybe check and see if there’s oil on top of the studs? Also just noticed the PCV valve grommet you are using doesn’t look correct for the hole and may be leaking oil?

[Jay S]

Definitely sounds like a proper fix on the carb wells.

The other possibility that I have not seen mentioned yet is it could be oil getting sucked past the common wall head bolt? It was mentioned I think one bolt boss was thin enough it had a crack. If the rocker studs can have oil sucked last them when they are not sealed up, the head bolt could possibly pull oil in if it was broken thru and not sealed up enough. It probably would not take much, that common wall bolt is at a really high vacuum area at the bowl.

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Definitely sounds like a proper fix on the carb wells.

The other possibility that I have not seen mentioned yet is it could be oil getting sucked past the common wall head bolt? It was mentioned I think one bolt boss was thin enough it had a crack. If the rocker studs can have oil sucked last them when they are not sealed up, the head bolt could possibly pull oil in if it was broken thru and not sealed up enough. It probably would not take much, that common wall bolt is at a really high vacuum area at the bowl.

Yeah. I think that might have been a candidate if it was only in one runner. I made that tiny breakthrough on the first headbolt bulge I did, which was #3 or #5 depending on which way up I had the head when I started. Whatever I am dealing with is in most holes on both heads. No other breakthroughs happened.

Sam

[glhs#116]

The other crazy thing I am thinking about is the oil I found in #6 behind the valve just sitting there pooled. I mean, like more than half a teaspoon. So it’s something that came through between me shutting down and taking the intake off. Something that can seep and collect even without vacuum. Either that or the walls were covered with it and then it all pooled. I did do a few revs to check for smoke before I shut it off. And, relating to Jay’s question, this is the completely other head from the one with the small headbolt breakthrough. And a hole that was far from the oiliest spark plug.

Sam

[steve25]

Sam at this point I would pull the intake and stop using those plastic locators.

You may be sucking on oil from the intake manifold bolts that are not blind, or the open face areas of the heads intake flange.
This time around put a thin bead of form-a-gasket on both sides of the gasket around the ports .

Allow this to skin up some and then bolt the intake back on.

I have never had good luck sealing up a intake when I was using those locators.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by steve25

Sam at this point I would pull the intake and stop using those plastic locators.

You may be sucking on oil from the intake manifold bolts that are not blind, or the open face areas of the heads intake flange.
This time around put a thin bead of form-a-gasket on both sides of the gasket around the ports .

Allow this to skin up some and then bolt the intake back on.

I have never had good luck sealing up a intake when I was using those locators.

x2 ... I never use them.

[glhs#116]

Intake off. I cleaned the gaskets and heads. Did a smear of RTV around the ports and water passage and let it skin. Intake back on with bolts tightened in lots of small steps. No evident interference. Bolted it down tight. Let's see. I still need to put water and spark plugs in it. I figure if I still get smoke now with the replaced-again valve seals and the RTVed intake gaskets It'll have to be rocker studs and I'll just have to do them again more carefully. But that doesn't need intake off again so should be quicker. I sure hope something I've done works. I just don't feel like I've really found the cause still. Very frustrating.

Sam

[glhs#116]

Well, I suppose you all can guess by now. Took it out, got it warmed up, went for a blast and SMOKE. Of course. Took it back. Parked it in the garage. Left it running while I sort of looked at everything I could think of. I know it's internal now. And I know it's the heads. I know that with a second set of new valve seals very carefully installed with applicator and engine oil for lube that it's not valve seals. Process of elimination, that only leaves me with "rocker studs didn't seal up because of the brake clean still in the head not letting it set". At least that's all I can think of. Once it is all warmed up and has gone for a run it smokes at idle. I think the oil needs to get nice and thin before it gets in wherever. But then it can seep in almost continuously. Again, that seems like rocker studs. Anyway, that's what I'm going to hit tonight. How do y'all get the head holes clean and dry? Brake clean and then paper towel? I don't have any compressed air to blow through...

The exhaust stud holes are blind, right? At least I don't remember seeing them in the exhaust runners. But I didn't look very hard...

Sam

[johnta1]

Have you checked to see if the head drains good?
Some early heads didn't drain well and pooled up and filled the head under the valve cover. (which the valve seals can't control)

Engine doesn't have a different angle in chassis? (tilted back?)

[Skip Fix]

Another question-do you have a PVC valve in it? What kind of valley cover-aftermarket aluminum?

[lust4speed]

Good point on the PCV valve. Disconnect it if it is hooked up and drive at least a dozen miles and then check if the smoke persists.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by glhs#116

"rocker studs didn't seal up because of the brake clean still in the head not letting it set"... ...How do y'all get the head holes clean and dry? Brake clean and then paper towel? I don't have any compressed air to blow through.

Use aerosol carb cleaner instead of brake cleaner, dry it with a propane torch? Or just let it evaporate for an hour or two.

"I" would be using Loctite 592 plus an activator as a sealant.

[Formulas]

you can use a vacum instead of compressed air to dry out your stud holes after spray cleaning

and there is an ARP product to use on wet studs similar to teflon pipe dope a thick paste cleaning isnt as much of a problem and theres no set up or curing its what my E'heads came with

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Formulas

and there is an ARP product to use on wet studs similar to teflon pipe dope a thick paste cleaning isnt as much of a problem and theres no set up or curing its what my E'heads came with

Best I can tell, the ARP sealer is Locktite 592 in a custom-printed tube and raised price. I've never bought the ARP stuff, so I don't know that it's got the distinctive odor of the Loctite/Permatex sealers.

If I'm right, It absolutely does cure, the whole point of the high-quality sealers is that they're anaerobic--they harden like a threadlocker in the absence of oxygen and the presence of "active" metal (Iron, steel, brass, but NOT aluminum.) Thus the recommendation for an activator chemical when used on aluminum heads. The studs are steel, but it'd be nice to speed-up the cure with an activator.

[Formulas]

arp 100-9904 ptfe based at summit racing 10.69

AGAIN its what was on my E'heads originally

[glhs#116]

All good info here. Well, the studs looked a bit of a mess since they had two previous attempts to seal them. But, yeah. I think they didn't set properly because what I found was soft and slimy and only near the top. Oil had been seeping past.

I have a limited stock of chemicals. The blue threadlocker I used the first time is the only one that actually says on the label that it is also a thread sealer. I also found I had Permatex RTV in Red, Blue and Black. Only the red one says on the label that it is for filling and sealing. So I decided to double my chances.

I cleaned off the studs with solvent, a wire wheel, then solvent again. For the bolt holes I blew them out with brake clean as before. Then I found a 7/16 bolt and cleaned it with wire wheel and solvent. I chased the threads on each hole twice with this bolt, cleaning it with paper towel and solvent in between each time. I did the blue threadlocker again on the ends of each stud and I did a smear of the red RTV around the top of each stud and under the head. Then I put it all back together. I'll try it tomorrow.

Sam

[glhs#116]

OK. So day before race weekend and we were planning on driving up to the track today. So test drive. Twelve hours after sealing the studs so I figure whatever was going to set should have set. It's misting with rain so a bit harder to find a place to safely get on it but... Yup, smoke. And, true to form, once it's fully "driven" warmed up I can get more oil smoke with ease in the garage just by giving it a hard rev (push through to secondaries) and then it will merrily smoke away at idle for minutes after that. At a low level, I think it is continuous.

So... What I saw with the rocker studs last night gave me some confidence that probably the oil was coming from there. I guess I've failed to seal it again. It's possible I need better chemicals. I think the prep I did last night should have been good enough. I'm confident nothing was oily or wet with solvent when assembled. But maybe this blue thread locker/sealer (date unknown but old) and the red Permatex RTV (dated 2018) just aren't up to it. Or, you know, maybe there's still something I'm missing.

I did briefly try in the garage blocking off the PCV port on the carb. I could rev it and still make smoke. So I think that's probably ruled out. The trouble with something like PCV as a cause (or poor drainback in the heads) is that the same kind of oil is still in use and the PCV is the same and the head drain channels aren't changed so none of that should be causing a new problem. Right?

I've never felt like a more **** mechanic, honestly. I've rescued this car from all sorts of things. I fully rebuilt the TH350 successfully. I've recovered from all manner of mishaps. But this thing just has me feeling like an absolute idiot.

Anyway, looks like I can't get out of the weekend. Tickets are booked. Other people are going. Going to have to look at plugs and eventually those rocker studs some time after the weekend. Maybe I'll try to order a fresh tube of the right sealant. What did someone say Edelbrock used again?

Sam

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Any chance the car has a leaky/seeping modulator valve?

Transmission fluid makes thick smoke clouds

Clay

[Jay S]

If your engine was here at this point I would pull the intake off, seal the crankcase vents off, and pressurize the crank case with 2 or 3 lbs of air pressure. Then spray soapy water into the intake ports and look for bubbles. Doesn’t take a lot of pressure, I think a shop vac that has a pressure line could do it also. No fun redoing stuff you already work on!

[Schurkey]

What are the chances that the exhaust system is so full of unburnt/partially-burnt oil, that every time you whack the throttle open, you heat the exhaust enough to burn the existing oil inside the pipes/muffler?

I've just re-read this entire thread; and I have no deep insights.

The two things that trouble me are 1) the likelihood of oil in the exhaust; if you'd just drive the car (hard!) for a week or two, you might find that your "smoke" gradually disappears as the built-up oil in the exhaust system clears-out; and 2) the presence of oil on the #6 intake valve, but not in the #6 intake runner. And yet the #6 plug was not one of the really "bad" looking plugs which were #7 and #2.

In MY driveway, I'd be verifying:
1. Cylinder leakdown with a leakdown tester.
2. Actual sealing of the valve-cover bolt holes. You said you dropped cut-down bolts into them...but I would put a vacuum-tester with a rubber cone on those holes and see if they hold vacuum. If they do, great. If not, they need to be sealed better.
3. One wonders if you could do the same with the rocker-stud holes, from the port side. You'd have to pull the manifold again, and I don't know if there's room to cram a rubber cone for a vacuum-tester into the port in a way that the rubber seals to the hole in the roof of the port.

I'm starting to wonder if the problem is rings, and oil on the backside of the valves is the result of intake airstream reversion during overlap, or as a result of poor valve sealing. A leakdown test would absolutely verify valve sealing.

Sorry, that's all I got.