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Old 02-11-2019, 02:53 PM
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Default Car choices for my teenage son

My oldest son is a lost cause on the car guy front but my youngest who is turning 16 this June is showing interest and promise. I've been teaching him to drive for over a year and he is willing to learn to drive a manual.

Knowing how important your first cars are in what a person's tastes are as a car guy, I'm being a little picky on what I get him. The 2 things I absolutely refuse to buy him are a 4 banger import rice rocket or a Ford.
My first choice for him would have been something 60s, small block, 4-spd, but he only seems to like the more expensive cars that are way out of my price range (which is about $5K-$6K).

What would you guys recommend that is more modern and in my budget? I'm thinking a 1998-2002 V6 6spd Firebird type of car. I don't want him having a V8 quite yet, but if the right one came along I would just put a restrictor plate on the TB and limit the throttle travel. A V8 also means higher insurance for him tho. I'm having a difficult time coming up with good options.

I bought my oldest a 2001 Toyota Corolla and he is happy to have it. I for sure want my youngest to have something "cool" to turn him into a car guy hopefully.

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Old 02-11-2019, 02:56 PM
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What does HE think? I think that's more important than what any of us will tell you.

Do you live in the snow belt? A rear wheel drive Firebird may not be the best choice for a new driver.

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Old 02-11-2019, 02:58 PM
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I live in CA. He wants a Firebird like one of mine (a 92 & a 69), but those are out of my price range Which is why a 98-02 V6 Firebird comes to mind. Just something sporty with RWD and a manual.

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Old 02-11-2019, 03:13 PM
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I bought an '85 Firebird new. V6, 5-speed. It was my daily driver for a bunch of years and I loved it.

Eric

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Old 02-11-2019, 03:28 PM
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2 door G body

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Old 02-11-2019, 03:35 PM
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So you refuse to buy him a good first car like a Civic or a Corolla but you will buy him a GM car like a Chevy. LOL! That made my day.

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Old 02-11-2019, 03:44 PM
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In order of importance:

(1) Your insurance agent's opinion
(2) Your son's opinion
(3) Your opinion
(4) My opinion

Personal experience: when my son turned 16, he wanted a T/A. Insurance agent said no. Not an extra $100/month, not an extra $500/month, not an extra $1000/month. Just no. He suggested starting with something else, building a good driving record for 2 years, and then they would insure the T/A. My son did, and the insurance company did. Your experience may certainly differ.

I won't tell you what 1969 4 cylinder import we put him in to build his driving record, but he was disappointed that the T/A wouldn't outrun it Still loved the T/A.

Glad that your son will at least listen to your advice.

Good luck.

Jon.

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Old 02-11-2019, 03:44 PM
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I wouldn't rule out a 3rd-gen. Despite the earliest models being almost 40 years old now they're still cheap. A nice example can be had for under $3,000. Most of the time it takes a seller to go under $2,000 to actually find a buyer. The MPFI V6 and feedback carb/TBI 305 V8 engines are reasonably reliable and easy to get parts and work on. All of them are well under 200HP that a 4th-gen V6 Firebird makes.

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Old 02-11-2019, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbking View Post
In order of importance:

(1) Your insurance agent's opinion
(2) Your son's opinion
(3) Your opinion
(4) My opinion

Personal experience: when my son turned 16, he wanted a T/A. Insurance agent said no. Not an extra $100/month, not an extra $500/month, not an extra $1000/month. Just no. He suggested starting with something else, building a good driving record for 2 years, and then they would insure the T/A. My son did, and the insurance company did. Your experience may certainly differ.

I won't tell you what 1969 4 cylinder import we put him in to build his driving record, but he was disappointed that the T/A wouldn't outrun it Still loved the T/A.

Glad that your son will at least listen to your advice.

Good luck.

Jon.
Well put.

Honestly, what ever he gets, it's going to get bruised and probably on occasion driven hard.
I'd say get something that is economical in respect to both purchase price, and for maintenance costs;
That being said, forget the seemingly scandalous history of the car, the 2005-2010 Cobalt (or better yet G5) is really a good car.
You should be able to get a really nicely equipped one now for a song.
Just check with your insurance company if they penalize for a two door (many consider two door cars to be sports cars)

I bought my '09 Cobalt (albeit an SS) brand new, and have never had a day of buyers remorse... only remorse that I didn't do 3m coating and the like.
The only drawback on the Cobalt/G5 is the rear visibility when backing up - the rear glass is a little high, and it takes some getting used to.

Unless you are certain that your son is responsible, I'd steer away from any of the SS models - especially the supercharged (aprox 210whp) and turbocharged (aprox 245whp)... and insurance companies like to extort you for insurance.
- The 2006-2007 "regular" SS is a 2.4l 170(?)hp naturally aspirated car offered as both coupe and sedan, with auto or five speed manual transmissions. These were renamed a "sport" and sold for the first part of the 2008 model year.
- The 2005-2007 SS Supercharged is a 2.0l "205hp" (note the rating is lower than the prior mentioned whp) car offered only as a coupe with a manual transmission; limited slip was an option that for 2005-2006(?) came with a Recaro interior option. I believe all 05, and early 06 cars come standard with the goofy spoiler.
- the 2008.5-2010 SS is a 2.0l (260hp) turbocharged car offered as a coupe (all three years) or sedan (2009 only), and only with a manual transmission. Only 2010 (carry-over year) cars came fully loaded (eg: limited slip came standard). The goofy spoiler (which grew on me) was only optional for 2008.5 & early 2009 cars - it moved to a dealer option there after.

If the SS is more to yours, and your son's liking there are also HHR SS's, as well as Neon SRT4 & Caliber SRT4's that are an absolute hoot.

I understand the appeal of finding a nice third gen Firebird, and don't want to dissuade you, but they were not great on gas, and were a little lackluster on power... in high school I had a friend with one, he was constantly bagging the living crap out of his poor (1982 SE) trying to get the tries to chirp.

If a Firebird is more to your liking, I believe that the 3.8l became the base engine for 1997 - so those cars should be decent.

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1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:12 PM
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When I was 16 there was no way I could get insurance for a Firebird, v6 or v8. I couldn't actually get insurance from any agent for one until I was 22 even with a spotless driving record.

Think about the car you want him learning to drive on and take care of. It shouldn't be overly nice or expensive because if he's like most teenage boys he'll be an idiot for a period of time.

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:15 PM
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I find all the information regarding insurance to be interesting. I'm 38, got my license when I was 17 1/2, and I had an 82 Firebird, a 78 Datsun 280Z, a 74 Porsche 914, and a 60 Elcamino SS in high school. Not only could I get insurance no questions asked, it was totally affordable given my after school job. Has the world really changed THAT much in just the past 20 years?

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:24 PM
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Teenage son........

Its not a matter of what car YOU would like him to be seen in, its a matter of what car best suits his age and personality.

My opinion is you buy him the SAFEST possible car for the money you have. Something with airbags, proven crash rating, road stability.

From there you can move on to what car HE will accept as a good first car.

ONLY when he has enough miles under his belt and his senses have fully kicked in, you can then move him up to a car which he might aspire to. I don't care what you say, how smart, how sensible, how responsible you think he is, a 16y/o kid is going to make some errors of judgement. You want him to be safe at all times.

Don't ask me why I say all this or how I know it.

Just believe me when I say your son is the most precious thing in your life. Don't be wise after the event.

Good luck in your decisions.

Ian

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heybuck View Post
Just believe me when I say your son is the most precious thing in your life. Don't be wise after the event.
Excellent point. I'll take that to heart. Thank you.

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:36 PM
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My daughters first car was a 1978 Grand Prix with a 301. Car went for years with minor repairs and routine maintenance. Sold it for over half what I paid for it.

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:38 PM
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Just one more thing. I think you are super SMART to make him drive a manual as his first car.

Long story short, 26 years ago, my oldest daughter (then 19 y/o) was on a remote cattle station with 3 guys. The driver of the very old manual Toyota Land Cruiser had a life threatening accident. No phone or radio communication. Other 2 guys only knew automatics. Emily jumped in the cruiser, drove more than 3 hours in the dark in very rough terrain for help. These things happen maybe just once in your life and hopefully never but the fact is, she was capable.

Learning to drive a manual is a wonderful grounding to be a first class driver.

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92GTA View Post
Has the world really changed THAT much in just the past 20 years?
I'm your age and multiple insurance agencies all said NO to anything 2 door with a v8 engine or ANY F-body or Mustang when I called around asking. They had a list of cars they didn't insure for teenagers and all seemed to refer to the same list - they called it a "restricted list" car. Amusingly enough a GTO or A-body wasn't on that list. You may have been able to get insurance, but would it have met the standard for the state at the time in the event of an accident? Texas and California were kind of nuts with their restrictions.

Sure, kids I knew drove those cars in high school but my insurance company said they and their parents were taking a big risk doing so. I haven't thought about this in 15+ years so I have no clue how the world works now vs. how it *really* worked then.

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:46 PM
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some kids under twenty can be responsible with a high powered car;
I'd like to think that I was one of those few.
I first started driving on my own (I was paying insurance) at eighteen, in a state (Manitoba) which has what I coin as socialist insurance, at hte time that meant I could afford it no questions asked;
About a year later I mived two states over (Alberta) where the insurance was all private - I found myself paying more in one month for insurance than it costed me for a full year in the other state.

I survived, made it work, and then eventually bought my cobalt, and got myself raked over the coals again...
Mind you I was 32 when I got the car, but because of:
1) small production numbers for the turbo cars
2) all the kids who got them (most were significantly younger than me) tended to write them off ... the attrition rate was staggering.
That made them look like a high risk car.
So I got raked over the coals for several years...

I had no idea how much my insurance was going to charge me before I bought the car...
It was around that time that I realized many insurance companies see a two door car as a sports car - what a crock of crap... I just wasn't being penalized for a while because my "sports cars" were old enough that no one cared.

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1970 Formula 400
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A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben M. View Post
I'm your age and multiple insurance agencies all said NO to anything 2 door with a v8 engine or ANY F-body or Mustang when I called around asking. They had a list of cars they didn't insure for teenagers and all seemed to refer to the same list - they called it a "restricted list" car. Amusingly enough a GTO or A-body wasn't on that list. You may have been able to get insurance, but would it have met the standard for the state at the time in the event of an accident? Texas and California were kind of nuts with their restrictions.

Sure, kids I knew drove those cars in high school but my insurance company said they and their parents were taking a big risk doing so. I haven't thought about this in 15+ years so I have no clue how the world works now vs. how it *really* worked then.

Yeah, long as I've had my license CA has had a minimum requirements law which I had to be compliant with. I think I had Famers or StateFarm. I have StateFarm now so I guess I'll ask if they have any sort of "restricted" list for teenage drivers.

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heybuck View Post
Just one more thing. I think you are super SMART to make him drive a manual as his first car.

Long story short, 26 years ago, my oldest daughter (then 19 y/o) was on a remote cattle station with 3 guys. The driver of the very old manual Toyota Land Cruiser had a life threatening accident. No phone or radio communication. Other 2 guys only knew automatics. Emily jumped in the cruiser, drove more than 3 hours in the dark in very rough terrain for help. These things happen maybe just once in your life and hopefully never but the fact is, she was capable.

Learning to drive a manual is a wonderful grounding to be a first class driver.
Absolutely. For the past year+ he's been learning in his brothers Corolla but I feel he's mastered that to a large degree and he is open to learning to drive a stick so I'm certainly going to buy him a manual if I can find one.

He also wants to do some more professional driving course with me in a couple years once he has a large number of miles under his belt. I've been through all of that many times to a semi-pro level and have taught him many of the basics already. I started him out on challenging winding mountain roads.

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Old 02-11-2019, 06:50 PM
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State Farm was who I was with when I bought my Cobalt;
I left them to save money back in 2013, and since then I have given them two opportunities to get my business, each time, they are way more money than others...
It's a shame, I liked my agent.

I also agree that learning stick is a good move.

I learned stick, like some of my other friends, but for the road test I used an automatic car.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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