[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Test your Guru'ism - roll over roosevelt

Car is presented as Automatic floor shift

1-2 quirks = pirahnacuda
3-4 quirks = tigershark with a big long tail
5-6 quirks = greatwhite/orca hybrid - submarine sinker

a RamAir IV is always worthy to those who are willing.
This actual car has ... a couple / few ...things that might not fit well on a GTOAA score sheet
- but dont they all .
can i get an amen here on that

Whether or not it would be worth chasing would depend on your personal copy of PHS Invoice , and the overall mood you get from some pictures of the specimen.

This is just to keep you guys sharp on your paperwork stuffs .
idunno what the car really is - or what its really worth

[goatless]

Not sure what all you're going after here, but the first thing that catches my eye is the lack of optional console.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Valid = 1 point

Mr Pirahnacuda

It gets a lil deep ... sorta kinda ... as the points rise

[Simple Man]

Is that 24237 "7" B? Or is the "9" a misprint?

[Simple Man]

I see it's a 9

[muscle_collector]

whats with the 3auto trans never seen it listed that way

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

whats with the 3auto trans never seen it listed that way

was it a '69 Baltimore plant thing, at least for a while?

GUAGE_TA&CL appears strange notation as well (I'm much more up on '71 & '72 invoices)
Rally guages with an indash clock along with a tach would have to mean a hood tach was ordered, yet no notation for the separate hood tach option.

Other oddity, is RAIV engine was optioned, yet no HD RADIATOR, which was required w RAIV engine

Is this a real invoice or someones idea of a joke?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

....
Other oddity, is RAIV engine was optioned, yet no HD RADIATOR, which was required.

Os this a real invoice or someones idea of a joke?

HD Radiator was standard with IV package.
Car is listed for sale on www. - with this invoice.
Its a real handful of a car/deal .
To put it lightly

i dont want to be mr bad guy promoting negative publicity directly towards it
owner could even be a member ... its wild

EDIT - HD Rad standard aka inclusive with IV package , what i meant by that.

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

whats with the 3auto trans never seen it listed that way

Valid = 1 point for Gary Pirahnacuda
Keep rolling in that direction ... 1 or 2 more quirks are not too hard to find .
The last couple are deeper , but substantial overall.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

444 is Tach & Gauge Cluster (in-dash with gauges) no probo on paper .

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Use cheat sheets if you have to guys .
The way the tranny was typed up is what first caught my eye - it started growing legs from that point .

So its supposed to be a Ram IV with Automatic floor shift and 3.90 ......
paper trail is going crooked fast

[GTO JOHN]

Isn't the 358 manifest code for a 4 spd close ratio? In addition the $184.80 is the 4spd price. Turbo Hyd sold for $221 or $227 I think. Auto trans is 351 manifest code.

EDIT: I have the unedited PHS in my files!! Shows 4spd trans. It's a real IV however.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

John could sink a submarine with a glancing blow !

1. Tranny typed up funky - wtf is that shet ?
2. So where is the speedo gauge adapter listed ? (all 3.90 & 4.33 with Auto)
3. Why no console listed if its bucket seat floor shift Auto ?

sumpn stinking

4. Wrong price for Auto
5. Wrong code for Auto
6. M21 text is 4 SP CLO TRA - they left TRA .... M40 text is TURB/HYDR
7. If you add all the prices up - they total the MSRP exactly.
So is it a Factory IV 4spd car with invoice altered to try to look like Factory Automatic ?
Or is the whole crazy thing mostly fabricated from another cars Invoice ?

8. idunno - either way it stinks pretty bad - and its losing credibility regardless.
Car would be better off presented as IV 4spd if it is the right car.
Nothing underhood is correct either way it goes. ?

Listing shows the same VIN on dash as on Invoice ....
Trim tag looks like 04A - ship date is 04-02-69 - thats banjo tight

Block stamping is craziest one i have seen yet. Its going the XP / SR / 2056 route -
with VIN too
Car has more goofy issues than worth typing about.
Just go check it out .

But it could still be a viable prospect for someone.
Buyer Beware

oh and its in Italy , with free shipping to USA .
Shouldn't be hard to figure out where its listed ... popular site to sell all kinds of stuff.

if its not a joke .... it missed its curtain call
or i have a twisted humor
i laughed a lot
lol
good show

[rexs73gto]

Sounds like someone with a towel on their head trying to get some more american money for free with a jokester car.

[richard sargent]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-...exp=true#v4-43

Maybe the owner can explain these oddities?

Code 358 on the PHS is for M21 4-speed not an automatic.
Car is green on green code 57 57 you can see it is green interior, owner listed as black.
Owner states car is also available with 19 inch tires and wheels and shows a picture of the car.
Not the same car, 19 inch GTO has the emblems on the fender in different place and also that car has aftermarket bullit mirrors
140 speedo
Code 472 console is missing.
EUN does not look right.
Missing round port heads.
Missing 462 Steering Wheel- Custom Sports

Here's the response I got when I emailed him.

Italian GTO and it's not a Ferrari So whatta, you gotta problem? Hey whats a matter with you?????? you no lika my car I puncha you in the face!!!!!!!



Owner's name Miter Bin Isdrty

[John V.]

I see that GTO JOHN actually has the unedited copy of the PHS.

Only thing that looked wrong on the PHS doc to me is the Trans Description.

Pricing is for the 4 spd and since it's a RAIV, would have had the close ratio, so description on original PHS doc will read:

4 SP CLO TRA

As has been mentioned, the Sales Code 358 is specific for the Close Ratio 4 spd.

PHS doc has been altered to read:

3AUTO TRA

which is nonsensical, not the description that was used for the Auto Trans, not the Sales Code for the Auto Trans, and not the pricing for the Auto Trans.

And GTO JOHN conforms what I suspected.

The stamped EUN is comical, reads 979 2506.

This is the block casting p/n for the '68 Ram Air & '69 Ram Air IV, in the case of the '69, typically the last 4 digits of the cast p/n ground off and the 2506 stamped since the last of the as cast 9792506 blocks were produced mid Model Year '68.

If it was a Service Replacement, the p/n of the as cast block would have depended on when it was cast, but the p/n was still on the ledge at the rear of the block, not stamped on the front pad.

Whoever stamped that block apparently had no real idea of what it should have been stamped even if he was trying to fake a Service Replacement RAIV block.

Richard, I disagree, that interior is definitely Black and correctly coded 258. But I agree with you on the other stuff.

Codes on the Data Plate match to what is shown on the PHS doc.

I suppose that the car could be legit but somebody converted the car to auto trans. I wonder if that can be detected by inspecting the floor pan cutout?

More likely perhaps, it is also possible that the VIN & Data Plate tags were purchased off a long gone RAIV and swapped to an auto trans donor GTO.

That being the case, it would probably be pretty easy to discover that the date coding on glass and sheetmetal is wrong for the VIN.

The options shown on the car at least suggest that the car is fishy.

Should not be a Hood Tach since the car got the in-dash tach & rally gauge cluster.

Looks like it has PS, car built as manual steer. Has standard Deluxe Steering Wheel, car was built with optional Custom Sports Wheel. Might even have Tinted Glass, All Windows, built with Tinted Glass, Windshield Only.

The VIN is probably from a legit RAIV. Not so sure the tags have always been attached to this particular Body Assembly.

Maybe it's a scam auction altogether? But smells like a tag swap car to me and poorly executed at that.

[The Boss]

John - there was only 1 casting date for the as-cast 9792506 blocks - it was C118. Reportedly some of the late 68 blocks were ground & stamped and all 69 blocks were.

[John V.]

Late '68 Ram Air 2506 blocks definitely were ground and stamped.

What about the L187 dated as cast 2506 blocks?

I thought that C118 was the latest they were cast, not the only date cast.

That said, it seems very few as cast examples were produced, they are very rare.

[richard sargent]

My guess it was a Lemans look how high GTO emblems were put on the fenders.

The non-Ferrari Italian GTO does have a additional data plate on left firewall that is riveted.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by John V.

Late '68 Ram Air 2506 blocks definitely were ground and stamped.

What about the L187 dated as cast 2506 blocks?

I thought that C118 was the latest they were cast, not the only date cast.

That said, it seems very few as cast examples were produced, they are very rare.

My mistake - L187 as well, but none of those have shown up with anything other than RA I block codes on them. My records show C118 were used for both I & II.

[Simple Man]

C'mon, guys! The ad says "all documents are clear". and it's got the 400 4V decal, what else do ya need?