[al1950]

hi trying to find cowl tag on 1962 GP
it has door pillar tag
where exactly is the cowl tag
I looked above the brake master cyl area but see nothing?
there is a HEI power unit installed there, could it be covering it up?
any one with diagram or photo showing location of tag highly appreciated.
thanks
Allan

[Keith Seymore]

Should be up on top of the cowl/plenum (horizontal surface); passenger side of the vehicle.

'63 GP shown; '62 should be the same.

K

[johnta1]

SM says it is on a plate attached to left side of cowl just under the rear edge of the hood.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by johnta1

SM says it is on a plate attached to left side of cowl just under the rear edge of the hood.

I would trust this more than my post (because of the model year difference).

K

[al1950]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I would trust this more than my post (because of the model year difference).

K

thanks, I appreciate this forum so much, always helpful.

ps truly enjoyed your GTO birthday pics and post and your story, very interesting and glad you shared it with us .
you are to be enskied to the Pontiac heavens.
thanks Allan

[Keith Seymore]

Thank you; and you are welcome.

K

[63Banshee]

63 Wagon
FF Yorktown Blue
208 Tri color blue vinyl
BK Kansas City Plant
2-3 ?
439 ?

Only "options" the car may have come with:
326
Auto
Push button radio
Valance bumpers
2 spd washer wipers
Full hubcaps

[John V.]

As with previous decodes in this thread, 2-3 undoubtedly was the Gate No. used for the body assembly for this build, a fixture used in the welding of the body assembly.

BK 439 identified the Body No.

This translates as the 439th Tempest 21 Series Safari wagon (35 Body Style) Body Assembly produced for the '63 Model Year by Fisher Body-Kansas City for final assembly at the Kansas City, Kansas BOP Assembly Plant.

It does not appear likely that Fisher Body regurgitated any of the option codes on the Data Plates at the Kansas City, Kansas facility in '63.

[63Banshee]

Interesting then no code for at least the push button radio. I'll look close for clues of it being a radio delete car. Perhaps the radio has to be part of a package before being cowl tag coded?

[John V.]

First of all, I have never known any Fisher Body Plant to code for the radio option in any Pontiac in the early to mid '60s.

But you are apparently missing the point.

Fisher Body-Kansas City did NOT regurgitate any option codes on the '63 Data Plates for the Kansas City, Kansas cars.

Doesn't mean the car got no options, means Fisher Body just didn't code them on the Data Plate.

This was NOT unusual. Some Fisher Body Plants regurgitated codes on Data Plates, some did not.

The cars were NOT built according to Data Plates. They were built according to paper manifests.

Whether any of the option codes appeared on the Data Plates varied by Plant. And some Plants coded UPCs starting in '63 near as I can tell, while others coded with the 5 group code system, but some Plants coded neither.

For example, in '64 Fisher Body-Fremont coded a handful of UPCs on the Data Plates if the car was so equipped. These included A20, A49, B70, & B80. Not too many, if any, other codes would appear on the '64 Fremont Data Plates. At Pontiac and at Kansas City, Missouri, Fisher Body regurgitated the 5 Group codes on the Data Plate, many more codes appeared such as 1E, 1T, 1X, 2G, 2P, 2T, 2V, 3B, 3K, 4G, and 5N plus many, many more might appear on Data Plate from those plants. At Baltimore, NO option codes appeared on the Data Plate.

At all 4 '64 Plants however, Fisher Body used the same 5 Group code system for the paper manifests in order to complete the Body Assembly.

No Fisher Body Plant in those years coded any option on the Data Plate for which Fisher Body was not responsible for a Body Assembly modification. Engine options and radio option were among the things that had no effect on the Body Assembly supplied by Fisher Body so no option code would be found on the paper manifest that Fisher Body worked from and consequently, no code regurgitated for such options on the Data Plate.

The car you posted about might very well have been equipped with the radio option. But you will NEVER be able to determine that from the Data Plate.

BTW, the radio was always an option. There is no such thing as a "radio delete option". The standard car build was without a radio. You only got a radio if you ordered that option. The heater was standard content. There were times when you could order a "heater delete option". Starting in mid '64, front seat belts became standard content, a "seat belt delete option" was added to the order form. But a radio was not deletable since it was not standard content to begin with.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by John V.

The cars were NOT built according to Data Plates. They were built according to paper manifests.

What is amazing to me is that this is still the case.

We still use paper manifests today to build the cars. The SPID label (Service Parts ID label) takes the place of the cowl data tag.

How far we've come....(or not).

K

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by John V.

Fisher Body-Kansas City did NOT regurgitate any option codes on the '63 Data Plates for the Kansas City, Kansas cars.

That's more definitive than "does not appear likely." Thanks for the clarification.

[John V.]

Well, I hate to say "never" or "always" so maybe someday, somebody will find one with option codes on it for some reason. Hence, the "does not appear likely" phrase. Your reply led me to think you were going to search for an alternate reason for the lack of Accessory codes on this car, which was pointless based on all the evidence so far, I felt you would be wasting your time.

When a car has options that are coded on the Data Plates at other Plants but not coded at the Kansas City, Kansas Plant, and a few KC examples have appeared in this thread that are consistent (no Accessory codes whatsoever), my conclusion until evidence pops up to the contrary is that KC did not regurgitate them at all. Therefore, my more definitive clarification.

Glad to help. So now we know to expect '63 KC Data Plates to show no Accessory codes. But keep looking, if you find a KC Data Plate that contradicts the conclusion, that would be useful, so let us know.

[63Banshee]

I stop searching at 5T.

This thread offers opportunity for a collective to contribute enough information to draw conclusions on a number of issues. All input is welcome. Wish I would have taken notes on all the transaxle cars that have come through my shop. Probable that something(s) could have been learned from them. Hope to see all PY transaxle owner members post here until all questions are answered.

Now, my question on KC cars is at what point do we reach 5T regarding ACC codes? Are we there or do we need information collected from a distribution of cars built throughout the year? If that is the case, the provided info used to draw conclusion would include build dates or VINs.

[John V.]

Not sure how many is ever enough. My help here is only of a general nature, I've never tried to document stuff specific to the '61-'63 Tempest. Only judging from what has been posted in this thread.

I'm not even sure where the '63 Tempests were built.

Another source of input is the big car guys.

Kansas City, KS built about 54,000 Pontiacs & Tempests in '63 based on the VIN tabulation.

Fisher Body-Kansas City should have been consistent with the coding (or lack thereof) for Accessory codes on the '63 Data Plates for both Tempests and Pontiacs.

Might try to enlist the help of that Forum group to see if anybody has a '63 Kansas City big car that can provide Data Plate input.

It is certainly possible that KC began coding options later in the year.

In '69, just before Lordstown stopped all Firebird production in March, for the last 2 weeks they started coding a particular option, usually using the UPC B80, and I believe associated with the Décor Group option (but not for earlier builds with that option). This was apparently done when Pontiac decontented the '69 Firebird to keep price down. Prior to that, Fisher Body-Lordstown did not code any options on the Data Plates of the Firebirds or full size Chevys they were building.

Worth looking for some later examples to see if anything changed in '63 for the KC Data Plates.

[63Banshee]

Seems we have seen only early 63 KC cars posted here thus far.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

Seems we have seen only early 63 KC cars posted here thus far.

Ok...ok. You've shamed me into action...

(lol)

My car is at mom's house about 45 minutes away. I'll drive up and have lunch with her today and take some pics of the cowl tag.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

I stop searching at 5T.

Now, my question on KC cars is at what point do we reach 5T regarding ACC codes?

I'm either not familiar with or am drawing a blank on this terminology.

What does "5T" mean?

K

[63Banshee]

5 time constants. Have fun with your mom.

[63Banshee]

This tag is off a car in the for sale thread. 63 vert, 326, auto, Yorktown blue, blue vinyl, console, push button radio, valance bumpers, deluxe steering wheel, backup lights. Haven't seen under the hood. 07C date, Pontiac plant. Do we know the start and stop build dates for model years at each plant?