[indiantony]

I'm in for a pair

[Fly GTO]

Maybe. It would be a spare as we are just about to get my son's back on the road.

[Paul Yeaman]

What constitutes a "GOOD'' or affordable number? If you need a pair, what is that worth? I would not know the value of the part if I were to find one so . . . . what does a guy pay?

[Chiefkey]

Guys... I paid 50.00 for a NOS Insulator from a place called Collectors Auto Supply. They could only find (1) among their sources. I need two, so would I pay more for another if I could find it, you bet. At what point does the price become unreasonable ?
That's for each of us to decide. I'm not sure what my cut off point is. At the time, I thought 50.00 was pretty steep. Now that I still nedd one more, I'm not sure.
JK

[TempestFugit]

It can easily take weeks or months to find one. If you need one in the summer and can't drive the car till you find one, what's it worth to find it?

If I needed one (or two) bad, I'd pay a lot! Then I'd shop around for a spare at a better price and divide the total price paid by the number of bearings and feel a little better about it. In the mean time, if somebody needed my spare they would have to pay the higher price...

(I think fifty bucks is more than fair considering that good ones last for decades.)

[Doug]

It seems that by answers to my post there is a current demand for about 20 of these pieces. Only one member (by private message) responded by saying that he had bought an original one for $50 sometime back after a long search. He did not say whether or not the piece contained a bearing, nor did he say how long ago it was when he bought it.

There are various brands of bearings used in these pieces. In an old post a member mentioned that he had used the VXB 6005 2RS unit and to date at that time he had put some 14,000 miles on it without any problems. There has been some comment here that the VXB 6005 2RS bearing is of low quality and being "Chinese made". A brief look on E-bay shows that a 6005 2RS bearing can be bought for much less than $10 and some sellers include free shipping at that price.

So, with that kind of pricing, it is to be determined what any of you would pay for:

1. a NEW insulator without bearing installed? ...............???
2. a new insulator with bearing installed?......................???

The fellow I am talking to about doing this project has indicated that he may be able to "furnish" the bearing retainer rings for this project instead of having any buyer sending him their "old ring" for refurbishing for use in the new pieces. Of course, if old rings are to be sent in, then there is a shipping cost to the buyer in doing that. That shipping cost is probably in the range of a few to several dollars. Of course, the fellow would have to refurbish the old rings and that would be a labor cost to him. With that in mind, it seems that it would be better for the fellow to furnish rings if it fits in his economics.

Of course, there is a shipping cost for sending the pieces to the buyer. I assume that cost would be between $5 and $10 and that amount would be included in the price.

So, again, what price would any of you would pay for:

1. a NEW insulator without bearing installed? ...............???
2. a new insulator with bearing installed?......................???

Thanks!

[cleveweld]

There are alternatives for the ropeshaft bearings available besides "Chinese made".
Delco NDH New Departure Hyatt Made in USA #Z993L05 25mm x 47mm x 12mm. All of the bearings below listed on Ebay are under $10.
The VXB 6005 2RS bearings that I commented on 6 years ago are Chinese made. I did not call them "low quality", I referred to them as cheap. I feel that Americans should buy American made parts for their vintage cars when possible.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELCO-NDH-BE...item3c9f922ff1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-NDH-Delc...item3f1be828ec

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Z993L05-NEW-...item54053580b6

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-New-Delco-...item2eb48795cb

ww.ebay.com/itm/NEW-IN-BOX-NDH-BEARING-DELCO-Z993L05-BALL-BEARING-GM-PRODUCT-270-3-/171036839577?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d297 0e99

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NDH-Delco-Ne...item257ff32225

[Rick Beller]

a new insulator with bearing installed ( with quality bearing)
i Would easly pay $50.00 each or $100.00 for a pair pius shipping! However my if apart now and will be back together in 45 days. What could be the turn time?
Rick

[62eyadams]

I don't want to start a bidding war, but I would pay $50 for an insulator, with the bearing cup, but without a bearing. And I would buy 2, at least.

If I have to provide the bearing cup, I'd want $10 off.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Rick Beller

a new insulator with bearing installed ( with quality bearing)
i Would easly pay $50.00 each or $100.00 for a pair pius shipping! However my if apart now and will be back together in 45 days. What could be the turn time?
Rick

Granted there are several NDH bearings currently listed on E-bay, it appears that there only about 20 available and by looking at the photos of them some "appear" to have some rust issues and all are old NOS bearings. With price and shipping, it appears the average total cost would range slightly above $10.

I called Advance Auto about an interchange bearing for the NDH model and I was informed that an equivalent bearing #105-CC is available from National only as a direct order item for $27.29 to Advance.

So, it being obvious that there may be a wide range of choice of bearings to any insulator buyer, it appears that the simplest thing to do is to have the fellow furnish only a new insulator and let the buyer do his own bearing installation in the new insulator himself.

Accordingly, it appears that the pricing for a new insulator would be on a "without bearing" basis. Some members have indicated a $50 price for a "with bearing" item. If one deducts an average of $10/bearing from the $50, then it appears that members would pay only $40 per new insulator (with buyer paying any additional shipping costs).

Currently there are no new insulators being made. It is all in the very earliest planning stages and no pieces/parts of any new or used insulators have been furnished to the fellow for him to examine (although one member has volunteered to furnish a NOS unit for the fellow to inspect for Durometer, dimensions, etc).

It appears by responses that there is a demand for only about 20 new insulators, hardly an earth shattering amount, and at $40 apiece generating only $800 of total income, I cannot see the fellow being too inclined to take on the project.

I am going to contact him and discuss these aspects in a day or so. I will post results. In the meantime, remember that these insulators are on the Pontiac UNOBTAINIUM list but this may be the way to get them off that list.

[Chiefkey]

If this guy can provide a quality reproduction of the insulator at a reasonable cost, I'd be happy to buy 40-50 pieces, maybe more, if that's what it takes to get this project going.
JK

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Chiefkey

If this guy can provide a quality reproduction of the insulator at a reasonable cost, I'd be happy to buy 40-50 pieces, maybe more, if that's what it takes to get this project going.
JK

Jeff, You have a Private message.

[Doug]

The fellow I am talking to about reproducing these items has indicated that he can reproduce the bearing housing rings himself. He also indicates that he has a source for a quality bearing for use in the piece.

Accordingly, he has indicated that he could produce a complete insulator with bearing installed and he is inclined to make them up that way.

Thankfully, board member "Chiefkey" has volunteered to provide a NOS insulator to the fellow for measuring, Durometer testing, etc. The testing of the NOS insulator will be non-destructive.

At this point, the fellow needs to have an old insulator with ring (or just the ring itself) for his machinist to measure.

Does anyone have an old insulator (or just the ring itself) that you are willing to furnish for the cause???

Also, the fellow has indicated that he would make up an insulator and send it to me for my approval before he would proceed in making any for sale.

Personally, I feel that the bearings selected and the overall design/materials of the insulator would be of no concern. My only concern would be as to how well the "rubber" would adhere to the housing ring. Right off, I can't think of a handy way to "test" that aspect. My thoughts are that a test could be made to see how much pressure it would take to "shear" the rubber from the ring, maybe by use of a bench hydraulic press setup.

Obviously, such a test would not compare with what the factory did in their testing when they were designing these things but with such a small volume of demand for these items,
I can't see where anything more than a simple hydraulic press test would be warranted.

Again, does anyone have an old insulator (or just the ring itself) that you are willing to furnish for the cause???

Thanks!

[Paul Yeaman]

Hi Doug,

Wow . . . this is becoming a popular topic!!!

My first "high-paying" job - out of high school, was at Dayton Rubber in my home town. 'Made $3.75 plus shift differential . . . BIG MONEY for an unskilled kid . . . . . in 1964.

I recall that as utility worker, one of my tasks was to insert a (vulcanized) rubber-clad steel sleeve into a larger cylinder thus creating a bushing which was installed into the ends of a huge leaf spring for use on period semi tractors. The key ingredient to this process was - in addition to the hydraulic press - was a specific oil. I had to soak the rubber-clad sleeves in "this oil" for about an hour and then insert the slightly softened inner bushing into the outer sleeve. The oil was critical because the rubber needed to be softened so that it wouldn't be damaged as the inner bushing penetrated the inner "ridged" barrel of the outer sleeve!

It might be a good move to test an unused bushing in a lab situation for composition as well as hardness. There may well be an engineer - still living - who has knowledge or perhaps access to data relative to these components. GM spent a great deal of money to calculate pressures and load forces on components such as these. I would be resistant to installing NEWLY made parts of this nature especially if I could for-see injury to my family - myself or any person in my vicinity while driving at road speeds.

That's it,

Paul

[Doug]

Paul, Thanks for the commentary.

These bushings are entirely different critters than the Sonoma bearing. If you look at post #3 of this topic you will see a diagram of the driveshaft setup and the #29 part which is the insulator part. Post #10 is a photo of the piece. These bushings are entirely enclosed within a "tunnel" (tube) and a typical failure would be the bearing would seize up from use and the rubber insulator would "turn around" inside the tube until it is destroyed.

These insulators are not subjected to a heavy load. They serve to keep the driveshaft centered in the tunnel tube and to reduce vibration of the driveshaft. I cannot envision any situation where the failure of one of the insulators would jeopardize the safety of anyone. Failure of one would however be a big problem for the car owner because these parts were never reproduced and have been virtually unavailable for several years.

Thanks again for your interest.
I believe the fellow I am talking with about doing this project told me that at some time he worked in a "rubber" products manufacturing facility which would indicate that he has some higher level of expertise.

[TempestFugit]

Originally Posted by Doug

I cannot envision any situation where the failure of one of the insulators would jeopardize the safety of anyone.

Agree.

The Damper bearing insulator/bearing is contained in the Torque-Tube and if the bearing seizes it will just spin and chew up the rubber. Might make a racket but a OE part would not be a safety issue and I can't imagine that a repro would do any different.

[Doug]

Again, does anyone have an old insulator (or just the ring itself) that you are willing to furnish for the cause???

[TempestFugit]

If nobody has one readily available, I might be able to dig one up. Give me a couple of days.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by TempestFugit

If nobody has one readily available, I might be able to dig one up. Give me a couple of days.

Thanks for the offer. Hope it pans out.

Furnishing the fellow an old worn out bushing and the NOS one from Chiefkey is where this thing stands right now.

[Poncho_Villa]

If I had one I would gladly donate it to the cause.