Suspension TECH Including Brakes, Wheels and tires

          
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  #1  
Old 10-18-2018, 10:50 PM
avman avman is offline
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Default Rear coilover conversion kit? Who has done it? Any aftermarket rear axles w/coilovers

I am likely to change out the housing on my new Quick Performance Ford based rear axle assembly. I don't HAVE to, but let it suffice to say I have an opportunity to and I'll leave it at that.
So my thoughts and plans that led to the one I have now were:
Cut the housing 2" narrower than stock because I had 2" of clearance to the inside of both rear tires, and no clearance to the inner lip of the rear quarters. Well I am having to use 1/4" wheel spacers to keep one tire from slightly rubbing on the inner fenderwell on one side, so the next housing will be 1" wider, or 1/2" per side.
I also kept the stock style "springs and shocks" design thinking I could add a coilover conversion kit, and then change it back if I didn't like it. Well despite the new stock height new Moog springs and about a 1" rubber spacer pad, the rear of the car is way too low compared to the front and so far I don't see a way to install my airbags that I used to use (car came with them) to raise the rear to level, and I don't want to drop the front, and some coilover conversion kits are not compatible with the QP rear housing.
So that leads me to my question:
Is anyone using an aftermarket rear axle assembly and housing AND an aftermarket coilover conversion kit, OR does anyone have an aftermarket rear axle assembly and housing WITH coilovers?
Thanks.

  #2  
Old 10-18-2018, 11:52 PM
pokey1 pokey1 is offline
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I am using the quick performance 9" with the QA1 coilovers

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1967 GTO, 467 roller motor, e heads ported, tremec T56 magnum 6 speed and
9" done. EZ EFI 2.0 with FAST dual sync distributor and separate nitrous system done. Track is at 4300 ft elevation. so far a best of 11.95@116. Suspension now getting dialed in...tubular front a arms with dual adjustable coil overs HR Parts n stuff rear bar and whole car lowered 3 inches..
  #3  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:11 AM
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Sirrotica Sirrotica is offline
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If you'd like to have infinitely adjustable height, and have a smooth ride you could buy a air ride conversion setup and get rid of the steel springs altogether. Add a tank and compressor and you can dial your height from inside the car. I converted my 1 ton dually from steel to air, and would never consider steel again.

https://store.airslamit.com/default/...htmlcompletely.

Cheaper than coil overs and the ride is hands down better than steel springs. In the end it depends what you want.

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Old 10-19-2018, 09:24 AM
avman avman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokey1 View Post
I am using the quick performance 9" with the QA1 coilovers
QA-1 just happened to be the first manufacturer that I looked at when I did a web search. They actually have an installation video.
I have a few really important questions for you:
Did you decide to go with coilovers after you already had the rear axle assembly?
Had you discussed using coilovers when QP was designing the rear axle and if so, what was done differently than if it was made for springs and shocks?
What part of the body/frame/suspension supports the weight of the vehicle (at the top of the coilover) and is it sturdy?
Now I'm wondering if there is any advantage to having QP do "something specific" for accommodating coilovers or if I should just get it setup for springs and shocks and add the QA-1 kit...
Thanks! Waiting for your reply.

  #5  
Old 10-19-2018, 09:29 AM
avman avman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
If you'd like to have infinitely adjustable height, and have a smooth ride you could buy a air ride conversion setup and get rid of the steel springs altogether....Cheaper than coil overs and the ride is hands down better than steel springs. In the end it depends what you want.
What I want is the best weight transfer for traction on the launch +60ft out at the drag strip and a good ride the rest of the time.
I need the ability to adjust rear ride height.
Double adjustable coilovers I believe are going to be more appropriate than what you have, but I appreciate the reply.

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Old 10-19-2018, 09:46 AM
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If you want good weight transfer then your front suspension will need modification to get the optimum travel distance and rate of rise.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #7  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG View Post
If you want good weight transfer then your front suspension will need modification to get the optimum travel distance and rate of rise.
The trip to the 1320 we just made about 2 weeks ago was successful from a launch traction perspective. The modded 421 wasn't up to its performance potential, but as far as traction goes, we did pretty well, and that was without using the line lock to clean and heat the drag radials. I have Competition Engineering 3 way adjustable drag shocks on the rear now set to 50/50. I have done nothing with the front suspension at all, and I would imagine my starting point would be a pair of 18 way double adjustable Viking shock absorbers that would also allow for full range of extension and compression/rebound control.
What other front suspension mods are you using?
My point is that unless we impart a lot more power via nitrous oxide at the launch, which we don't have and haven't planned on, we are really close to the goal of optimum launch + 60ft. rear tire traction so I don't think we have a lot that is needed to do with the front end.
On the other hand, as we get more traction at the launch +60ft, I'm sure that we could get more aggressive with RPMs and cut down the 60 ft and 1320 times, so I am interested in your input.

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Old 10-19-2018, 11:36 AM
pokey1 pokey1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avman View Post
QA-1 just happened to be the first manufacturer that I looked at when I did a web search. They actually have an installation video.
I have a few really important questions for you:
Did you decide to go with coilovers after you already had the rear axle assembly?
Had you discussed using coilovers when QP was designing the rear axle and if so, what was done differently than if it was made for springs and shocks?
What part of the body/frame/suspension supports the weight of the vehicle (at the top of the coilover) and is it sturdy?
Now I'm wondering if there is any advantage to having QP do "something specific" for accommodating coilovers or if I should just get it setup for springs and shocks and add the QA-1 kit...
Thanks! Waiting for your reply.
Avman will answer as well as I can. Can get a few pictures and post if you wish..

Yes the rear axle assembly was already here before I decided to go with the QA1's.

Did not discuss with QP, in fact had QP add the lower control arm bracket (extended with additional holes) for adjusting angle. Rear end was set up for normal shocks.

The QA1" mount in the same location as the stock shocks. There is a beefy bracket that mounts on the frame for the top of the shock with a third bolt added for attachment to the frame. Easy to install. There is also a beefier bracket that mounts to the rear end shock mounting hole with a ball bearing swivel mount that attaches to the shock.

__________________
1967 GTO, 467 roller motor, e heads ported, tremec T56 magnum 6 speed and
9" done. EZ EFI 2.0 with FAST dual sync distributor and separate nitrous system done. Track is at 4300 ft elevation. so far a best of 11.95@116. Suspension now getting dialed in...tubular front a arms with dual adjustable coil overs HR Parts n stuff rear bar and whole car lowered 3 inches..
  #9  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:03 PM
avman avman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokey1 View Post
Avman will answer as well as I can. Can get a few pictures and post if you wish..

Yes the rear axle assembly was already here before I decided to go with the QA1's.

Did not discuss with QP, in fact had QP add the lower control arm bracket (extended with additional holes) for adjusting angle. Rear end was set up for normal shocks.

The QA1" mount in the same location as the stock shocks. There is a beefy bracket that mounts on the frame for the top of the shock with a third bolt added for attachment to the frame. Easy to install. There is also a beefier bracket that mounts to the rear end shock mounting hole with a ball bearing swivel mount that attaches to the shock.
I saw the brackets in the installation video by QA-1, but wanted to ask. I am sending you a PM.

  #10  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avman View Post
The trip to the 1320 we just made about 2 weeks ago was successful from a launch traction perspective. The modded 421 wasn't up to its performance potential, but as far as traction goes, we did pretty well, and that was without using the line lock to clean and heat the drag radials. I have Competition Engineering 3 way adjustable drag shocks on the rear now set to 50/50. I have done nothing with the front suspension at all, and I would imagine my starting point would be a pair of 18 way double adjustable Viking shock absorbers that would also allow for full range of extension and compression/rebound control.
What other front suspension mods are you using?
My point is that unless we impart a lot more power via nitrous oxide at the launch, which we don't have and haven't planned on, we are really close to the goal of optimum launch + 60ft. rear tire traction so I don't think we have a lot that is needed to do with the front end.
On the other hand, as we get more traction at the launch +60ft, I'm sure that we could get more aggressive with RPMs and cut down the 60 ft and 1320 times, so I am interested in your input.
What times are you running in the 1/4? Ideally you want 4-5" of free travel in the front, the double adjustable Vikings might be overkill depending on your times.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #11  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG View Post
What times are you running in the 1/4? Ideally you want 4-5" of free travel in the front, the double adjustable Vikings might be overkill depending on your times.
Well, what we ran vs what we should be running are far apart right now.
For simplicity, let me say that the car should be running mid to high 12s.
I got Viking double adjustable front shocks for my 70 440+6bbl Roadrunner, but I haven't had any time to play around with adjusting the rebound and compression for best traction which is a big problem for that car. Overkill is relative when you try to do the best you can whenever you make a change or invest in a system or have a goal.
I agree that I want to do what makes sense, and we (my wife and I) don't have unlimited money, that's for sure!

  #12  
Old 10-19-2018, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avman View Post
What I want is the best weight transfer for traction on the launch +60ft out at the drag strip and a good ride the rest of the time.
I need the ability to adjust rear ride height.
Double adjustable coilovers I believe are going to be more appropriate than what you have, but I appreciate the reply.
Avman, I know you're probably too young for this to mean anything as far as drag racing from the mid 60s, but sometime when you have the time google, Fast Eddie Schartmans Air Lift Rattler. He had a couple of Mercury Funny cars with air bag suspension, of course sponsored by Air Lift. Air bags aren't just for low riders, and semi trucks.

No pressure here, but I believe you discounted the air ride suspension as soon as you read it, thinking that it couldn't work on a drag strip. FWIW, air suspension has been used on many different venues of racing though the years. I just wanted you to be aware of the possibility, your car and your money, and your discretion, I won't mention it any further.

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1973 T/A (SOLD)
2005 GTO
1984 Grand Prix

100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway?

If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated

  #13  
Old 10-19-2018, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
Avman, I know you're probably too young for this to mean anything as far as drag racing from the mid 60s, but sometime when you have the time google, Fast Eddie Schartmans Air Lift Rattler. He had a couple of Mercury Funny cars with air bag suspension, of course sponsored by Air Lift. Air bags aren't just for low riders, and semi trucks.

No pressure here, but I believe you discounted the air ride suspension as soon as you read it, thinking that it couldn't work on a drag strip. FWIW, air suspension has been used on many different venues of racing though the years. I just wanted you to be aware of the possibility, your car and your money, and your discretion, I won't mention it any further.
I did discount it offhand, but that was due to preconceived notions rather than the experience that you and others have had.
I appreciate the input.
I'm 56 BTW.

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Old 10-19-2018, 08:23 PM
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I looked up the driver and some of his cars. One that preceded the Air Lift Rattler was said to be the first one to use...coilovers. Lol.
Thanks again!

  #15  
Old 12-17-2018, 09:46 PM
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Narrowed FAB9, ABC Mini Tub, Viking double adjustable coil overs.
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:06 PM
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Global West has come through for me. It has been almost a year, and Global West was never involved in the first go around, but I think that they are swooping in to "save the day". They made these brackets and spring perch pocket round "braces".
The round parts are to be welded in the spring pockets for the top of the coilovers to attach to, and the L shaped bracket will be welded to the new rear axle housing and powder coated.
This way, with the coilovers in the front of the axle, WHERE THE SPRINGS would normally go, and the round support in place, I will have PLENTY of beefy support on both the top and bottom of the attachment points of the coilovers!
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avman View Post
Well, what we ran vs what we should be running are far apart right now.
For simplicity, let me say that the car should be running mid to high 12s.
I got Viking double adjustable front shocks for my 70 440+6bbl Roadrunner, but I haven't had any time to play around with adjusting the rebound and compression for best traction which is a big problem for that car. Overkill is relative when you try to do the best you can whenever you make a change or invest in a system or have a goal.
I agree that I want to do what makes sense, and we (my wife and I) don't have unlimited money, that's for sure!
It’s pretty tough to adjust front shocks on a GM a body compared to a Mopar torsion bar car since the shocks are inside the spring. Depending on how close the coils are you may have to remove them to get to the knobs.

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Old combo:
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http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-GTO...lip-31594.html
  #18  
Old 11-15-2019, 04:21 AM
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Thanks.
For now, the front shocks on the GTO are whatever the car had when we got it.
I'll keep that in mind.

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Old 11-15-2019, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCSGTO View Post
It’s pretty tough to adjust front shocks on a GM a body compared to a Mopar torsion bar car since the shocks are inside the spring. Depending on how close the coils are you may have to remove them to get to the knobs.
My Camaro IA project I had to grind the shock holes on the lower A arms to be able to get to the knobs.

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  #20  
Old 11-18-2019, 11:23 AM
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I found this video from the Global West booth at SEMA in 2009. It explains why at that time they used a method in their coilover conversion kit to put the coilovers where the SPRINGS were.
The brackets they sent me will accomplish this. The axle housing brackets I have are going to be mounted a little differently, but very close to this.
I would guess they changed to the strictly bolt on kit w/crossmember (for added strength) because of having to weld with this setup.
https://youtu.be/cxGpw-10L5c

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