[79 Phoenix]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Congrats on the buildsheet find!

I'm sure you'll get a decode of it, but a quick glance from me shows WR engine code which is 350 2bbl and 3.23 gear ratio.

Thanks John. I knew it had the 2 bbl 350 but was hoping for 3.55 gears... 3.23 not too bad though. My 79 Phoenix came from factory with 2.42 gears!

Also thanks for the gear ratio/tire size/RPM calculator you put out there. It has been helpful to me and many others over the years!

[79 Phoenix]

Attachment 608182Attachment 608180

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Great luck on finding the Buildsheet !
You won't need to buy a PHS Invoice for the car.

Sold new to dealer
08-371 Weidner Pontiac Co. 760 Park Ave. Mansfield, OH 44906

You can decipher the codes with some good reading glasses.
In row #40 you have item #1
Row #43 you have items #2 and #4 (6)
Row #47 you have item #4
etc .....

Its upside down and gets blurry when I try to magnify it.

Axle code WF is 3.23 single-trac/peg-leg

Carb code JE will be stamped onto carb where the part number and date code are stamped - if it is still original carb.

Thanks! I didn't realize it was upside down... Here's a right side up picture and bigger too. I was told it was bought new in Mansfield, OH... The original owner sold it to the guy I bought it from who sold it to me because he hadn't touched it in 4 years. So I will be the second driver. I was hoping for 3.55 gears but the 3.23's will suffice.

[79 Phoenix]

Since I am waiting for a few front brake parts before I install the shoes and drums, I moved to the back and removed the gas tank..Tank actually had about a gallon of old gas left in it after 30 yrs!. Underside of trunk looks good.

Looks like tank has 3 vents and just a gas line but no return line for gas. Is this correct?

[79 Phoenix]

My car has the original engine in it. It has 187,000 miles on it and I have no idea what condition it is in. It does turn over by hand. Probably rebuildable and also probably needs bored and new pistons, etc. I will need to invest considerable $$ into it.

I have an opportunity to buy another 1971 350 engine which is in good shape. Obviously not a matching number block and the heads are not the stock #94s.

QUESTION: If I use this other engine how much would it hurt the value of an otherwise numbers matching GT-37?

['ol Pinion head]

Here is my own .02. Have bought over a dozen GT-37's & a few T-37 hardtops since I was a 22 year old "kid". Also was the first to commercially reproduce the 3M reflective stripe for the 71 1/2's as well as reflective sword stripe '72 models. Last ran the GT-37 Survey in the late 80's & early 90's. The purpose of the GT-37 Survey was to uncover many details about these cars were actually built, & honestly, dispel a bunch of hype. Connected with a ton of GT-37 owners through those efforts.

Bottom line, concerning "numbers matching", about the only way anyone is going to appreciate an original Pontiac 350 2bbl engine equipped GT-37 is if the car is a time capsule cream puff! In info I compiled from the decades old completed GT-37 Surveys, there are numerous cars that were submitted with pics that were nice original lacquer paint, original interior, original drivetrain cars. A few were one family owned cars. Owners were proud of them & rightfully so. If someone were to stumble onto such a GT-37 today, the way the hype goes, the car needs to be unveiled. Then when done fluffing a lot of detail issues & thinking $$$$ signs, it's off to "Bring A Trailer". Several goofs on BAT, then will chime in that "only 50" 71 1/2's were built. That was, & is still is totally bogus! Much closer to half of the 5802 '71 & 71 1/2 GT-37's produced were built mid March through early July of '71 as 71 1/2 models.

Last, & am sure this opinion is shared with many other Pontiac faithful; replacing the well worn 350 Pontiac with a good 400 or 455 is next to a nobrainer. Wasting funds on another low compression small valve 350, whether its a 71 or later, not much to be gained there. Over the years I've had quite a few 400 YS 4bbls out of '71 GPs & Formulas, they are harder to find but not extremely hard to find. Whether built up as strong running '71 96 headed 400. Or building one up further w a stroker crank & street ported 96's, either are a good recommendation. A decent 455 buildup is also an option, though often a more expensive core to start with.

[kingbuzzo]

Build it for you, not the investment potential.

Put that original block in the corner...life is too short and get her on the road!

[unruhjonny]

I agree with these guys, but we also all have individual opinions.

If this was a halo car (RA, 455HO, SD455) then the numbers engine would be a much bigger factor, but lets be honest for a second;
A 350-2bbl car, wasn’t ever a hot rod, it was a grocery getter.

If you can get a P-350 that is in good to fair running shape for cheap, then do it.
Even better if you can put the original motor aside for a later date.

Good Pontiac 400’s and 455’s aren’t exactly falling out of trees these days, so even a substitute 350 should not be a strike against you.

I want to add, that I believe the P-350 is sorely under rated;
It’s a great engine, and for all the hype an Olds-W31 gets, you would think that a 350HO (aka: 350/4bbl) would get applause deserved… but it does not.
Even small valve engines can make great power.

I would advocate keeping your car as correct as possible if you are concerned about value.

Maybe at this time that means a completely different 350, but maybe in five to ten years, instead of rebuilding a replacement engine you (or the next owner?) might rebuild the car’s original block, and put it back in.

[SD455DJ]

Good points from unruhjonny and OPH and I do agree with all of them. I have an early version of the '71 GT-37 that is an original 455HO car, but the original block is already punched .060 over and the 197 heads have cracks in the seats, so I built a new (different) 455HO engine and replaced the original ailing M-13 3-speed trans with a BW-ST10 4-speed. The numbers block will always stay with the car. If I were in your shoes, I'd retire the original 350 under the work bench (keep it) and focus on a 400, or 400 stroker, build. I have a 400 stroker build in my '70 Lemans 4-dr sedan and it's a heck a lot more fun to drive than the 350 2-bbl. It's original 350 is "under the work bench" and don't miss it a bit. It will stay with the car when it moves down the road with a new owner. 400 engines are still out there and the best (& most affordable) platform to build on.

I wouldn't invest any money in either 350 engine unless it was a '68/'69 350HO, or as OPH said, it was a 'cream-puff' survivor car.

Your GT-37 is a great color combination from the factory and most folks won't care if the original 350 2-bbl isn't in the car. Most would prefer a non-original 400/455 that looks factory and it will add value in my opinion. I would upgrade the rear-end to a 12-bolt if you went the 400 stroker/455 route.

Dennis

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

...I want to add, that I believe the P-350 is sorely under rated;
It’s a great engine, and for all the hype an Olds-W31 gets, you would think that a 350HO (aka: 350/4bbl) would get applause deserved… but it does not...

The Olds 350 was a superior motor; short stroke, large bore that had more power and unless cammed like the W31 got better mileage too.

[unruhjonny]

/\ except the Olds motor made less power, and was only available in one platform.

I absolutely agree that it was a cool motor, and a real curve ball considering what Olds was doing at the time, but for all the press time the W-31 cars get, you would think that Tempest/Lemans/Firebird 350HO cars might get similar press time - but they do not.

[79 Phoenix]

Thanks to you all for sharing your knowledge and insights! VERY helpful in shedding light on my question... I'll let you know what happens.

[79 Phoenix]

Have been working in the back mostly in past week but have gotten new inner and outer wheel bearings with races and the front brakes on... Going to pick up a slightly modified 350 tomorrow.!

[79 Phoenix]

Went and picked up this engine today. The guy I bought it from purchased it from the second owner who had owned it since 1980 and had driven it very little. Engine came out of a 71 T-37 has 41,000 miles.
It is identical to the one in my car except it has 4bbl carb and Crane HMV 234 cam which I understand is a very mild cam.

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE SPECS ON THIS CAM?

[79 Phoenix]

I might have gotten the numbers transposed. I think the ID is actually Crane HMV 243. Anyone know anything about this cam?

[unruhjonny]

if you assume that the number indicates advertised intake duration, as companies have done in the past, it’s probably a 243 duration cam

EDIT:

This might be a good link for starters:

Crane HMV cam

[79 Phoenix]

Thank you for the chart...I was going by what he told me about the cam--he wasn't sure of specifics. Attached is a picture of it but it also is not too clear.
I'm guessing this may be a new older cam that had been on someone's shelf---maybe from the 80's? I'm just trying to figure out what I've got. My heads are #94. He said performance with this cam was lack-luster.

['ol Pinion head]

Early '80's Crane split duration cam. Not that big. 243 would be advertised duration, .050 is going to be under 200.

35 years ago I had a Crane HMV 278 in a '70 GTO rescue. 400 auto/3.23, nothing special performance wise, needed more gear/ balanced w resized rods w new rod bolts. As i sold that GTO, it ran well for a putt- a-round driver project, but thankfully the fellow I sold that '70 to spent some $$$ on an engine build.

[79 Phoenix]

This cam was installed after the original factory cam lost a lobe because valves adjusted too tight...at least on one cylinder.

So the guy I bought it from put this cam in with new lifters, pushrods and valve springs (and 4 bbl) as a repair to get the car back on the road. I'm guessing, because this cam was available not necessarily for performance. His plan was to build a 400 anyway, so he just wanted to get this one running well.

I'm not looking for high performance from this 350 but would like it to run maybe a little better than stock. It has # 94 heads and a 625 cfm 4bbl carb. I'm thinking a cam that would give a slight boost in low to mid -range torque. Any suggestions or thoughts?

[400 Lemans]

Hard to read but the one at the top is your cam, i believe.

[79 Phoenix]

Originally Posted by 400 Lemans

Hard to read but the one at the top is your cam, i believe.

I appreciate you looking at this.. Yes, I think you are right. I wonder if it's even as much cam as original?

Anyway, the way the exhaust sounded when I listened to the video of it running before he removed it from his car bears this out. Very smooth and definitely no lope at all.

It's all okay though because my objective isn't performance. If it was I would probably spend several more thousand building a 400 or 455. The more I think about it, I will probably just leave it as is. Maybe even remove the 4 bbl and use my 2 bbl manifold with rebuilt carb. A new cam might mean different push rods and possibly valve springs... I just don't want to put a lot of money into a ho-humm engine when I already have one that, though not powerful, runs decent... Similar to how the original once did.