[citydesk175]

1. I called my friend at the GM Heritage Center who also reps the GM Photo collection and guided him to DPG sign. Thanks

2. I also showed him the above links to the factory photos. thanks for those.

3. I think I mentioned here somewhere that I found a stack of 4x5 aerial negs of the Pontiac area from 65-70. I am getting them scanned and will make the scanned images available to local & state libraries and planners so they can step back in time and compare those images against current Google Earth images, They will also be on a webpage whose URL will prolly be in my profile. (I just remembered that a few of the negs are of auto plants,,,,so they will be available too.

so much for now
more later
cd175

[Keith Seymore]

You guys are probably already familiar with the "Pontiac Pours it on for 1971" video series, as posted on Youtube.

I am adding this here now because I just had a chance to watch it, but mostly because in several of the later sections you can see a lot of the things we have been discussing in this thread.

Some things that caught my eye (based on my own experiences):

In segment 7 (at the 2:20 mark) , you can see the brake evacuation and fill operation. Brakes are then pressure tested and you can see the inspector writing on the repair ticket and placing it in the machine where it is stamped, showing its approval. I ran this corresponding area, as a student, at the truck plant for several months (...went through a lot of penny loafers because of the brake fluid...). I am reminded that if the ticket was rolled up and placed in the coils of the brake lines that would indicate a repair or a retest was required. The line would occasionally be stopped at this location (...very rarely...) if a few more precious seconds were required to complete the repair or retest.

To discuss the "evac and fill" operation for just a second: this machine was a big "vacuum pump" and actually sucked all the air out of the completed brake system. Brake fluid was then allowed to flow into the system, using the pulled vacuum as the driver. Brakes were not bled as a matter of course; only as a repair procedure. The system was then tested by placing a unit on the back of the master cylinder which then applied brake pressure. Leaks or soft brakes could be detected and if, after a certain time period, no problems were noted then the green light would come on and the ticket stamped that the brakes were OK.

The other area I ran, as my first "real" job after graduating, was the Fender Set area, as shown from 1:34 - 1:45.

Segment 7 also shows some nice shots of the build manifest (build sheet) in use on the trim line [and is a nice contrast between the build sheet and the inspection ticket, as shown above], and the "wheel lug multiple" on the chassis line (all 5 wheel lug nuts are tightened at the same time).

You can also see the inspectors writing and buying off on the work tickets at the end of the trim line and at the end of the final line in segments 8 and 9.

FYI -

K

Pontiac Pours it on for 1971" Youtube videos (segments 1 - 9)

1971.1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwd1-...eature=related

1971.2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ug39...eature=related

1971.3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKkap...eature=related

1971.4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdMMR...eature=related

1971.5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In2yj...eature=related

1971.6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoIcn...eature=related

1971.7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=393KP...eature=related

1971.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hLDC...eature=related

1971.9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRQu9...eature=related

[Keith Seymore]

I can't believe I haven't already posted this story:

I was talking with some guys here at work and the subject came around to the '63 Corvettes, specifically the ones with the RPO Z06 (40 gallon) fuel tanks.

The big fuel tank was one of the first applications of "blow molding" technology, where a bag of parrafin is dropped into a female mold and then air is used to press the plastic into shape (like a plastic milk jug). These tanks were made at Chevrolet Flint Manufacturing where my dad was working on the project.

The desire was to fill the entire cargo area with fuel so, in order to a make the die, the toolmakers attached the rear portion of a Corvette coupe to a "Keller" (a machine which duplicates shapes by tracing them, photo attached below) and used the actual body to make the die.

The next problem they encountered, though, is that the bag of parrafin would not "fill out"; that is, when they hit it with the air it just blew out the bottom of the bag and went "PPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT" (think of the sound a balloon makes when letting the air out).

They struggled with this issue until time was getting tight and the pressure increased to deliver a production run of parts. Dad was driving home one day, after his usual 10 or 12 hour shift, thinking about how to solve this problem. As he drove, he looked over at someone's front lawn and their sprinklers were running. Noticing the fan shaped pattern of the water, Dad thought "hmmmm"....

On the way into work that night he stopped by the hardware store and bought two little sprinkler heads. He went in that night, attached one of the heads to the air drop and POOF formed a perfect tank. He shot 10 or 12 more, set them over in the office to be inspected, removed the sprinkler head and put it in his locker. Then he went home and went to bed.

About the time he got to sleeping real good the phone rings. It's his boss: "SEYMORE, GET YOUR #$%^& IN HERE AND SHOW US HOW YOU MADE THESE FUEL TANKS OR BLAH BLAH BLAH etc. He got up, drove back into work, put the little sprinkler head back in the mold and shot several more tanks. They made the rest of the production run and you can see the results here, a production option that was available over the course of a couple years.

In the attached photo, the Keller machine is shown in the General Motors Area Research Center, where the first 300 Corvettes were produced in Flint, Michigan.

K

[Keith Seymore]

One more quick comment about the "Keller" machine. A Keller is a tracing machine - the completed die is positioned on top and the work piece is fastened below. The top stylus traces the pattern and the bottom cutting head machines the piece as you go.

Notice how the top pattern is kind of "dull", but the bottom one is comparatively shiny? One of the things they would do is line the pattern piece with a special type of masking tape, "Keller tape", to give them the thickness of the tape (approx .007") as extra material. That allowed them to finish/polish the die by hand, removing the extra material to "spot" the die or mold in as required.

Even at the time of his passing Dad would refer to masking tape as "Keller tape"...

[citydesk175]

New Stuff
Visit my latest photo album for some great vintage views of Pontiac
and a surprise

Ralph

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by citydesk175

New Stuff
Visit my latest photo album for some great vintage views of Pontiac
and a surprise

Ralph

Cool pics, thanks Ralph!

Was hoping the P51 still used the same "N" number so we might be able to see who owns it now. However, that number is currently assigned to a Russian "L39" - a two-seat MIG trainer in Washington State.

Do you have any idea who owned the P51 in 1967? Could it have belonged to a GM or Pontiac exec I wonder?

[citydesk175]

The story is that the p51 belonged to a doctor who could afford the 3000 dollars to fill it up (I have no idea what per gallon price was)

Did you see the Pontiac peeking out from behind the twin engine?

I may have posted source of these images earlier: I bought out an aerial photographer in 1970 or so and he included the negs of Oakland County, I just had these scanned and got them back today. these are all 4x5 and should blow up very well. specially the tiff versions on the other disk.

enjoy
Ralph

[citydesk175]

Originally Posted by Lloyd-TX

Cool pics, thanks Ralph!

I remembered that I was going to mention your SD
I love it

I was priviliged with the chance to take a 73 production SD out of the fleet at PMD engineering to run an errand down Telegraph

Thanks for the memory
Ralph

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Speaking of auspicious occasions, it was 29 years ago today that I walked through the doors at Chevrolet Flint Assembly and started my illustrious career with General Motors...

Has it been another year already?

30 years ago today I started with (...the "old"...) General Motors.

Here's to hoping we can get this thing turned around and that the "new GM" will be around for many more...

K

[citydesk175]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Has it been another year already?

30 years ago today I started with (...the "old"...) General Motors.

Here's to hoping we can get this thing turned around and that the "new GM" will be around for many more...

K

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!
3 cheers for longevity......You and the company
and to think that GM underwent all this turmoil just to feed us

Good luck in your career
and may GM last a thousand years

Regards
Ralph

[1974SD455]

Amen to previous post!

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by johnta1

At the F-body plants, how did the 'bodies' get to the engine?
Were the engines on the subframe then mated to the body?

John -

I'm sure by now you've seen this photo, but it absolutely answers your question.

K

[mike nixon]

Does anyone else find it interesting that the frame rails are body colored on that bird?


That doesn't look like overspray.


I was too busy looking at the Chevy earlier to notice it.

MIke

[Keith Seymore]

We had a brief converstion in one of the other threads about "old car smell".

I had to laugh the other day (Tuesday, I think it was):

When you walk from the Studios to the front of the GM Design building you have to cut through the "Executive garage". Normally there's just a bunch of new cars (Corvettes, Escalades and such - although occasionally Ed Welburn will park his '69 C-maro in there) but the other day I was walking back and I recognized a pungent, familiar odor: "Old car smell". I didn't see anything in the main part of the garage so I started snooping around and, sure enough, behind one of the partitions there was (a) '63 Corvette split window coupe (red, 4 speed, knockoff wheels) and, more impressively (b) a '39 Buick Roadmaster. That thing was huge and it was black and it was flawless. A very magnificent automobile.

I just thought it was funny that I could smell them before I could see them...

I noticed they were gone for a little while and then I noticed yesterday they were back. I asked the security guard what the deal was and he said they were there for "some pictures".

Not exactly sure what that usage would be but I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for them in internal photos and/or outside media shots.

K

[citydesk175]

Just got this in email
should be interesting for those in SE Michigan
citydesk175
================================================== ==

Attention MTHS Members and Friends.

We have several events coming up in the next few months that will require some
volunteer personnel to be successful. Please take a look and see if you are able
to come out and help at any of the following dates or locations.

-August 30: We are scheduled to put up a display at the Huron Pointe Sportsman’s
Club Heritage Day. We plan to put up our Small Wall tent, set up the .50 cal,
and the 81mm Mortar and have the jeep on display. We may also be doing some WWII
weapons live fire demonstrations on the rifle range.
We need some people to who are able to be on site at 0700 to help put up the
display, a few who can stay with the display to watch over things and answer
questions during the day, and folks willing to help tear down and load
everything back in the trailer at events end.
This will be a family friendly event, with lots of stuff for kids, so bring the
family, help out at the display for an hour or two, and have fun.
The event will be at:
35800 E. Twenty Eight Mile Rd.
Lenox Township, Michigan 48050
(Approximately one mile east of Gratiot, between Gratiot and County Line Rd)

-September 12: Chesterfield Historical Society Heritage Day. We will have our
WWII encampment display set up at this event, the historic village will be open
from 10:30 - 3:30.
As above We need some people to who are able to be on site at 0900 to help put
up the display, a few who can stay with the display to watch over things and
answer questions during the day, and folks willing to help tear down and load
everything back in the trailer at events end.
There will be games and activities for the children, guest speakers, music,
craft demonstrations, classic and antique cars and food will be available for
purchase. Parking is at the Chesterfield Township Offices with a tractor drawn
trolley ride to the village.
The Village is on Sugarbush Rd. North of 21 Mile (just East of I-94)

-October 18: Packard fall open house at the Packard Proving Grounds Van Dyke at
22 1/2 Mile Rd 1 to 5 pm.
This is our chance to put up a display inside the building we hope may one day
be our home. We will need a few people who can come out to the site during the
week leading up to the 18th and tidy up a space inside the building, put up some
tables and set up the displays, I’m still working out the exact set up schedule
with the Packard folks. As in the cases above, we will need a few people to help
man the display during the event and tear down. This is also a chance for us to
earn some brownie points with the show hosts, so if you are able to come out and
help with the overall show, parking, crowd control etc... I am sure the
organizers will notice.

If you are available to help at any of these events, please contact us at
mimths@mimths.org or call 586-215-7670 be sure to indicate which event you are
interested in helping with and whether you are available for set up, display
staffing, or tear down.
Thanks

Michigan Military Technical & Historical Society
www.mimths.org

[citydesk175]

Originally Posted by citydesk175

-October 18: Packard fall open house at the Packard Proving Grounds Van Dyke at
22 1/2 Mile Rd 1 to 5 pm.
This is our chance to put up a display inside the building we hope may one day
be our home. We will need a few people who can come out to the site during the
week leading up to the 18th and tidy up a space inside the building, put up some
tables and set up the displays, I’m still working out the exact set up schedule
with the Packard folks. As in the cases above, we will need a few people to help
man the display during the event and tear down. This is also a chance for us to
earn some brownie points with the show hosts, so if you are able to come out and
help with the overall show, parking, crowd control etc... I am sure the
organizers will notice.
Michigan Military Technical & Historical Society
www.mimths.org

================================================== ==========

JUST a reminder of the Packard open House

Go out and see MMTHS. They are prolly worth supporting, joining or copying.

I will try to make it there Sunday
I will be driving a GM car so you can recognise me.

And a Military cap of some sorts and maybe a Nam t-shirt

Hope to see someone there

Regards
CD175

[citydesk175]

Just talked to and old Friend from PMD and sent him here, He is much more of a fan (Techie type) and remembers things differently too. He says that it was a 1955 Pontiac that got buried behing a temporary building that stayed in place for 25 years!!!!!!

(Reminds me of the time abuilding full of rented furniture was declared excess, surplus and redundant. Send it back! You Say? Thats too simple for the biggest compand (Second biggest, sigh Third Biggest sigh.. and climing higher every day!

Mp they have to rent trucks for the rented furniture and then store the trucks on rented [rp[eryu forever.

Good luck GM!!!!

CD175

PS Bob used to talk to the famous pontiac engineers, so he may know a thing or two about somebody you wishyou had met

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by gtoric

An inside source at GM tells me that this car is still alive! It is now fully restored back to its original Plum Mist color and resides in the GM Historic Collection.

This brings to mind a story connected to the Plum Mist GTO. This was late in the winter of 2004. The new GTO was just beginning to show up on our shores, and I was asked to participate in an enthusiast's focus group for GM Styling. Myself and about eight other local Detroit area GTO/Pontiac enthusiasts were asked to gather at the Tech Center to give the management, marketing and design groups some of our "consumer-side" opinions on a new GTO design study. After an initial gathering at the Tech Center Design building, we traveled to a satellite facility located just blocks away from the Center. After a presentation by marketing and design, we were walked into a large studio room where we were shown a full-sized design mock-up of a potential 2007-08 GTO. Also in the room were a new Mustang GT and a very respectible Plum Mist '67 GTO hardtop. We were told the '67 was part of GM's vehicle collection fleet. I didn't realize the historical background of the Goat; it was just another restored GTO at the time. I just recently learned that this is the same beat-to-heck GTO, pictured above, that was used at the DPG for tire and wheel testing. Hard to imagine chosing this car to restore, but having spent most of its lifetme at the Mesa facility, it probably had no rust problems and very low mileage.

I realize it's almost unbelievable, but I just received confirmation via email from the GM Heritage Center that this Plum Mist '67 is, in fact, the tire test car from the DPG:





K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

We had a brief converstion in one of the other threads about "old car smell".

I had to laugh the other day (Tuesday, I think it was):

When you walk from the Studios to the front of the GM Design building you have to cut through the "Executive garage". Normally there's just a bunch of new cars (Corvettes, Escalades and such - although occasionally Ed Welburn will park his '69 C-maro in there) but the other day I was walking back and I recognized a pungent, familiar odor: "Old car smell". I didn't see anything in the main part of the garage so I started snooping around and, sure enough, behind one of the partitions there was (a) '63 Corvette split window coupe (red, 4 speed, knockoff wheels) and, more impressively (b) a '39 Buick Roadmaster. That thing was huge and it was black and it was flawless. A very magnificent automobile.

I just thought it was funny that I could smell them before I could see them...

I noticed they were gone for a little while and then I noticed yesterday they were back. I asked the security guard what the deal was and he said they were there for "some pictures".

Not exactly sure what that usage would be but I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for them in internal photos and/or outside media shots.

K

Incidently, here is the Corvette I saw at the studio:



This photo is from my GM Heritage Center visit last week. The '39 Roadmaster was there, too, but my son did not get a photo of it.

K

[GT182]

That's great news it still survives.... even tho it's now painted Plum Mist.

I just noticed that the grill in the "tire test mule" sure looks strange. It's even got 66 rocker mouldings on it. Straight 66 moulding with no moulding on the door. The article says "oldest d car in continuous use by GM back in 67". Was is car one of the first 67 GTOs off the design studio's floor for that model year, and the reason for the the oddities it has?