[Held for Ransom]

We have a FinishMasters near me to order from.

[dataway]

mrennie ... was that with no additives to keep it flexible?

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by dataway

mrennie ... was that with no additives to keep it flexible?

Correct. No additives. SPI advertises that their epoxy is designed to stay flexible. It appears (from what I have seen) that it is the most recommended product for priming/filling/blocking Endura bumpers without cracking, which is why I tried it in the first place.

While the paint "disc" from the bottom of the paint cup is certainly stiffer that when I first popped it out ~ 2 years ago, you can put pressure on it and it will flex, and when you put it back on the bench it slowly flexes back.

I kept a similar piece of R-M epoxy (EP569 which is no longer available here), and flexing it broke it into pieces. I had also sprayed the frame of my Endura bumper with black R-M epoxy, and coated the inner Endura area since no one one see it. I found that when I flexed the rubber, the R-M epoxy cracked like a spiderweb.

Contrast that to the SPI epoxy, I had applied 4 coats on the outside of the Endura and when I went back out in the shop the next day, found my bumper had slid off the work stand and was on the concrete floor face down.

Picked it back up and put on the stand, and after a few hours could not find and evidence that anything had happened. No cracks, just a few scuff marks. Kept block sanding and moved on.

I've used the SPI gray epoxy on my body work, but recently used some of their black epoxy for brackets and it looks awesome as is. If you are looking for a gloss black finish with corrosion protection for brackets, frames, etc, the black epoxy can do it alone. It really is a great product.

Also love the fact that SPI epoxy cures with a gloss making it awesome for initial block sanding as it acts like its own guide coat. The one thing about SPI epoxy you need to get used to is that laying on a thick first coat will cause it to "crater" or develop divots that look like fish eyes. You can keep spraying over these and block them out, but the key is to spray the first coat medium-wet and after letting it flash, successive coats can go on a bit thicker if needed. There is a learning curve to spraying it nicely.

Regarding blocking...the R-M epoxy I was using was advertised as being able to be sanded, and it absolutely sucks to sand. Very hard, gums up papers, not nice to sand at all. SPI epoxy sands very easily compared to the R-M stuff I was using. It is advertised as sandable and really is. To be clear, it does not sand as easy as urethane, but still sands quite well, does not gum up paper, etc.

The urethane I used was their regular build, very comparable to R-M's expensive urethane I used initially (DP26). My sense is that their urethane surfacing primer is less "special" than the epoxy, but is a real nice product and much cheaper than what I was paying for R-M stuff. SPI does make some other urethanes primers (Turbo and High Build), but I stuck with their Regular build as the shelf life of the Turbo is shorter than Regular and I work slowly...

I want to stress I am a hobbiest and not a pro...so these are my opinions based on my (limited) experience working on one car.

Attached are pics of my body from a few weeks ago. Sprayed 2 coats of SPI epoxy after last round of block sanding. Will block this then seal with reduced SPI epoxy and paint in a few months.

[mrennie]

Sorry for being long winded...I turned a yes or no question into a short story LOL

[dataway]

It was an excellent story by the way

So that SPI epoxy sands well despite being flexible? That's a hard combination to come up with, doesn't gum up the paper? Sanding wet or dry?

So if you seal with reduced epoxy primer .... just scuff and paint when you are ready? I ask because in my situation it might well be a couple of months before I can get it in paint. Will be stored indoors in a climate controlled area though.

[nytrainer]

Originally Posted by dataway

It was an excellent story by the way

So that SPI epoxy sands well despite being flexible? That's a hard combination to come up with, doesn't gum up the paper? Sanding wet or dry?

So if you seal with reduced epoxy primer .... just scuff and paint when you are ready? I ask because in my situation it might well be a couple of months before I can get it in paint. Will be stored indoors in a climate controlled area though.

If I don’t put color on within the 7 day window I scuff and seal wet on wet when I’m ready for color. That way you have mechanical and chemical bond. Wet on wet means I treat sealer like first coat of color. So when ready, scuff, Spray sealer, let flash and straight to color

[dataway]

Are there guidelines for sealing flash time compared to a regular coat of primer? So that seal coat goes on smooth enough to paint right over it?

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by dataway

It was an excellent story by the way

So that SPI epoxy sands well despite being flexible? That's a hard combination to come up with, doesn't gum up the paper? Sanding wet or dry?

Yes, the SPI epoxy really does sand nice and does not gum up paper. The first few strokes on fresh epoxy "grab" the paper, but once you get through that, I would say it sands like urethane except cuts down slower. This is dry sanding.

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by dataway

Are there guidelines for sealing flash time compared to a regular coat of primer? So that seal coat goes on smooth enough to paint right over it?

As NYTrainer said, SPI epoxy mixed 1:1 needs to be coated within 7 days for chemical bond.


When mixed as a sealer, the recommendation is to recoat within 2 hours to overnight. It cures faster when reduced.

This is from the tech sheet:

To use this epoxy as a paint sealer, reduce it 5-50% with the proper temperature range urethane reducer (this is very important) and spray with your base/clear gun. Spray one wet coat ONLY, let it sit 2 hours then apply paint. For sealing of a potential problem paint job, apply two coats of epoxy with proper flash times between coats and let it sit overnight before painting.
Remember, reducing epoxy speeds up the cure time so when mixed as a sealer the best application of base is within 2-18 hours (no sanding is required within this time frame).


Link to epoxy tech sheet:

https://9beb57d8-8d44-4ec2-99ae-f7f8...4924cefb17.pdf

[nytrainer]

Originally Posted by nytrainer

If I don’t put color on within the 7 day window I scuff and seal wet on wet when I’m ready for color. That way you have mechanical and chemical bond. Wet on wet means I treat sealer like first coat of color. So when ready, scuff, Spray sealer, let flash and straight to color

Johnny I realize there’s alot of info to absorb when using a new line of paint products but to clarify above..While you can use epoxy primer mixed as sealer I prefer using their 2k Sealer product because you can put color after it flashes (@ 10 min). See tech sheet pic below.
I use their “black” epoxy primer mainly because the black works best as sort of a guide coat, for me, while blocking. Then I use their 2k Sealer in grey or white (depending on color to be applied) so it’s easy for my eyes to see contrast when applying.
Here’s a link to their tech sheets for all their products. https://9beb57d8-8d44-4ec2-99ae-f7f8...44b448cb14.pdf

[dataway]

Thank you gentlemen. I think I'll order some of their product and use it on various projects to get a feel for it before I shoot anything important.

I'll put my laminating machine to work and laminate the appropriate tech sheet for each product.

[Poncho Dave]

Been using SPI epoxy and universal clear for about 5 years now. Clear is nice for much wet sanding and polishing, but you have to get used to applying it as it does not flow like a production clear of higher solvents. As others have stated, the epoxy is great for flexible items as well as steel, aluminum...

I have used SPI epoxy and clears with various base coats to date have not had any bad reactions. However, I have had much trouble finding paint suppliers who can match original finish colors. What has been brought to my attention is that many of these producers hold patents on the tinting formulas. You can use a different manufacturer to mix the color you want, however they are substituting tints to come up with a close mix. Not bad if your doing the entire car, but if you need it to match an original panel or example, much more time is spent altering the formula to come up with a satisfactory result. After much frustration with one of my projects, I paid double of what I was used to paying for paint and went with PPG to get the correct hue of mayfair maze. I was amazed that the first mix from PPG happended to match the original without alterations.

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by dataway

Thank you gentlemen. I think I'll order some of their product and use it on various projects to get a feel for it before I shoot anything important.

I'll put my laminating machine to work and laminate the appropriate tech sheet for each product.

Another SPI product that is quite good is their #700 waterbased W&G remover.


Cleans bare metal wayyy better than solvent W&G remover. Will not remove adhesive residue, but great for silicone removal and sanding dust/sludge.

[dataway]

I'll have to try that ... I was a DX330 user for years ... for a solvent it never seemed to clean that well ... but I've still got about a gallon of it lying around. Hard to get used to using waterbased stuff after years of keeping water away from paints.

I do like PPG stuff, mostly because that's what I used for years, had more to do with that was what was easily available and they had just about anything you needed.

Tried out the new air system today. New two stage IR compressor, Parker regulator and separator (individual units), Motorguard final filter. Waiting for the parts to build my aftercooler and drain. Going to have to use a manual drain on that, can't find one short of an industrial unit that has a 175 psi operating pressure (it's before the regulator).

Primed a tractor wheel with an old Husky POS gun, actually worked pretty nice with a steady air supply where the regulator didn't always seem 2 seconds behind the gun, nice dry air. Wanted to try it with the worst gun to see how it would work. I was satisfied with the results.

[dld]

this company has a full line of auto body supply's. name brands.

PPG 3M Norton all top items used in real body shops

They are nation wide . several locations in NY

http://www.finishmaster.com/

[vr1967]

A buddy of mine has been using paint from The Coating Store for at least 5 years and has had excellent results. they are local to us and seems to be a good product

https://www.thecoatingstore.com/?fbc....ZUOar2od.dpbs

[dhutton]

Originally Posted by vr1967

A buddy of mine has been using paint from The Coating Store for at least 5 years and has had excellent results. they are local to us and seems to be a good product

https://www.thecoatingstore.com/?fbc....ZUOar2od.dpbs

Your first post in 15 years?

Don

[vr1967]

Originally Posted by dhutton

Your first post in 15 years?

Don

No, about 6th or 8th post. My Firebird got placed on back burner years ago due to life and working overseas. Now my second about thru college, so .....