[John O.]

Other than the data tag on cowl, number on dash and stamping on frame which is almost impossible to see, is there anywhere else on a 68 GTO where there is a VIN stamped?

[johnta1]

No VIN on cowltag?

[John O.]

Yes there is a VIN on cowl tag. Other than the 3 spots I mentioned on original post, can Vin number be found stamped anywhere else on a 68

[Keith Seymore]

Pontiac and Kansas City built A bodies do not have the VIN on the cowl data tag.

What build plant is the vehicle in question from?

Oshawa has included the partial VIN under the heater box for some model years but they are the exception rather than the rule.

K

[68pongto]

The only place where the full VIN is stamped (actually embossed) on a 68 GTO is the dashboard.

There are partial VIN's stamped on the frame, engine block and transmission. An example would be 28P123456. 2=Pontiac Division, 8= 1968 Model Year, P= Pontiac Michigan assembly plant and the last six digits will match the last six of your VIN, assuming your car is numbers matching.

There is NO VIN stamped on the data/cowl tag, I have an example picture; 05C is the build date, 68-24237 = the year and the model, 2=Pontiac, 42=GTO and 37 =Coupe. The 20840 = the 20,840 GTO coupe built at the Pontiac plant. 223 = Black bucket seat interior and Q-Q = Verdoro Green upper and lower paint, but again there is NO VIN on these tags.

Also starting in 69 I have seen the partial VIN stamped on the firewall under the heater box/blower motor, but I have never seen it stamped there on a 68.

[John O.]

U r right about cowl tag, I wasn’t thinking. Is this ur tag or an example? After the build date mine has a bunch of numbers. Car was built in Fremont and where ur pic shows PON as plant mine has what appears to be DFO. Engine and trans not original.

[68pongto]

Yes, that is a picture of one of my trim tags. The code you are seeing on your tag is BF=Freemont plant, the digit is 0 (zero) not O. The zero is the start of your body number. The two sets of numbers that are after the build date are some internal sequencing numbers. Some plants put some sequencing numbers on the tag, some didn't. It has been discussed a few times here on the forum and nobody really has been able to decipher any of the internal seq. numbers.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 68pongto

nobody really has been able to decipher any of the internal seq. numbers.

The internal sequence numbers are simply that: internal sequence numbers. They really have no significance once the vehicle is released into the wild.

Assembly plants assign sequence numbers in the body (weld) shop, and again in the trim shop. The final line sequence number (the "General Assembly", or GA sequence number) becomes the gold source once established.

Most plants have the ability to re-shuffle the build order at the end of each of those locations, by having a body bank, or buffer. Builds can be shuffled at the end of body shop to allow for extended repairs; builds can be shuffled at the end of trim for repairs or to level the workload in the downstream operations (ie, can't have too many AC cars in a row; can't have too many manual trans cars in a row; can't have too many tripower cars in a row).

Fremont did not have that ability and was one of the few plants that built "straight through". As a result they were able to broadcast the body shop sequence number and have it maintain its significance through the entire build process.

K

[joe'sgto]

my 68 has it stamped on the fire wall but not a complete vin

[68pongto]

Originally Posted by joe'sgto

my 68 has it stamped on the fire wall but not a complete vin

That would be a partial VIN. Is that a Baltimore car? It looks like a B in the partial VIN. Don.t see too many Baltimore built cars here in St. Louis, Mostly Pontiac plant cars and some Kansas City built. That would be a first for me seeing a partial VIN on the firewall on a 68 GTO.

[68ragtop]

The body on my 68 has random numbers & letters stamped in various places that I found during the restoration process. Never knew what any of them meant. Dates, plant number? No vin that I came across, but I would guess the other stampings mean something that would connect a cars build date, or maybe mfg plant. Maybe both? So while they aren't vin numbers, they could still likely tie things together like the way dates on the drivetrain parts & glass do? Just a thought......

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by 68pongto

The only place where the full VIN is stamped (actually embossed) on a 68 GTO is the dashboard.

There are partial VIN's stamped on the frame, engine block and transmission. An example would be 28P123456. 2=Pontiac Division, 8= 1968 Model Year, P= Pontiac Michigan assembly plant and the last six digits will match the last six of your VIN, assuming your car is numbers matching.

There is NO VIN stamped on the data/cowl tag, I have an example picture; 05C is the build date, 68-24237 = the year and the model, 2=Pontiac, 42=GTO and 37 =Coupe. The 20840 = the 20,840 GTO coupe built at the Pontiac plant. 223 = Black bucket seat interior and Q-Q = Verdoro Green upper and lower paint, but again there is NO VIN on these tags.

Also starting in 69 I have seen the partial VIN stamped on the firewall under the heater box/blower motor, but I have never seen it stamped there on a 68.

Attachment 526822

The information regarding the the 6-digit serialized production number of the car produced is mistaken. That represents the 20,840th V8 car produced across all models and does not correlate to overall GTO production! :-) GTOs produced at that plant will be far less than that number at that point-in-time.

[joe'sgto]

Originally Posted by 68pongto

That would be a partial VIN. Is that a Baltimore car? It looks like a B in the partial VIN. Don.t see too many Baltimore built cars here in St. Louis, Mostly Pontiac plant cars and some Kansas City built. That would be a first for me seeing a partial VIN on the firewall on a 68 GTO.

Yes Baltimore.

[68pongto]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

The information regarding the the 6-digit serialized production number of the car produced is mistaken. That represents the 20,840th V8 car produced across all models and does not correlate to overall GTO production! :-) GTOs produced at that plant will be far less than that number at that point-in-time.

I would have to respectfully disagree with that statement. I have collected data on over 500 68 GTO's and have it all in a spreadsheet. The highest GTO coupe body number I have from the Pontiac plant is body # 26154, 07C build date, and VIN sequential #370088. So that car was the 270087th V8 Pontiac built at the Pontiac plant since the sequential for all V8 plants started at 100001. Six cylinder VIN's started at 600001, I have not collected a lot of data on those cars. But by far the Pontiac plant built the largest amount of 68 Pontiacs. The home plant probably built close to 40% of all 68 Pontiacs.. Also I have data on a 68 GTO conv. that is a 07B car and it's body # is 3859, obviously the Pontiac plant didn't build 22,000+ cars in one week! The convertible's VIN is 361454, so that is a difference of 8,634 V8 cars built at the Pontiac plant. Another example is the difference between GTO and LeMans production, I have a 04E GTO coupe with body # 19545 vin 292899, a 04E LeMans coupe with body # 31575 vin 298687, then a 05B GTO coupe back down to body # 19801 vin 301991. All the plants exibit the same sequencing of body numbers to vins, except for one, the Framingham MA plant. Your statement holds true to that plant only, but that plant was the oddball. I can also deduce that the Baltimore and the Pontiac plant built about 4000 convertibles each for a total of 8000, the other 4 plants built the remainder of 1,980 conv. GTO,s. The Pontiac plant built about 26,154 GTO coupes, or about 33% of all coupe GTO's. I have data on the Framingham plant of a 07C GTO coupe with body # 104787 and VIN # 142443, also a 68 07D Chevelle with body #107044, so I think they sequenced body number regardless of make, but like I said that plant is the odd-ball and the only one that I have seen that did it that way

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

The body on my 68 has random numbers & letters stamped in various places that I found during the restoration process. Never knew what any of them meant. Dates, plant number? No vin that I came across, but I would guess the other stampings mean something that would connect a cars build date, or maybe mfg plant. Maybe both? So while they aren't vin numbers, they could still likely tie things together like the way dates on the drivetrain parts & glass do? Just a thought......

Those are likely date codes and internal numbers from the supplier (ie, Checker, GM Metal Fab division, GM Indy, etc). The final assembly location does not add small stampings to the body assembly - other than the aforementioned partial VIN or sometimes the last three digits of the body shop sequence number.

K

[Half-Inch Stud]

@68pongto; id been keen for a rust-free 68 shell: GTO or LeMans from the PON plant. You gots?

[68pongto]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

@68pongto; id been keen for a rust-free 68 shell: GTO or LeMans from the PON plant. You gots?

No, nothing like that. In referring to the data I have collected, it is from many sources, ebay, internet, this forum, salvage yards, car shows, my own cars, etc. I take pictures or save pics. of just about every trim or vin tag on 68 GTO, LeMans, or Tempest I see.

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by 68pongto

I would have to respectfully disagree with that statement. I have collected data on over 500 68 GTO's and have it all in a spreadsheet. The highest GTO coupe body number I have from the Pontiac plant is body # 26154, 07C build date, and VIN sequential #370088. So that car was the 270087th V8 Pontiac built at the Pontiac plant since the sequential for all V8 plants started at 100001. Six cylinder VIN's started at 600001, I have not collected a lot of data on those cars. But by far the Pontiac plant built the largest amount of 68 Pontiacs. The home plant probably built close to 40% of all 68 Pontiacs.. Also I have data on a 68 GTO conv. that is a 07B car and it's body # is 3859, obviously the Pontiac plant didn't build 22,000+ cars in one week! The convertible's VIN is 361454, so that is a difference of 8,634 V8 cars built at the Pontiac plant. Another example is the difference between GTO and LeMans production, I have a 04E GTO coupe with body # 19545 vin 292899, a 04E LeMans coupe with body # 31575 vin 298687, then a 05B GTO coupe back down to body # 19801 vin 301991. All the plants exibit the same sequencing of body numbers to vins, except for one, the Framingham MA plant. Your statement holds true to that plant only, but that plant was the oddball. I can also deduce that the Baltimore and the Pontiac plant built about 4000 convertibles each for a total of 8000, the other 4 plants built the remainder of 1,980 conv. GTO,s. The Pontiac plant built about 26,154 GTO coupes, or about 33% of all coupe GTO's. I have data on the Framingham plant of a 07C GTO coupe with body # 104787 and VIN # 142443, also a 68 07D Chevelle with body #107044, so I think they sequenced body number regardless of make, but like I said that plant is the odd-ball and the only one that I have seen that did it that way

I am just revisiting this thread after a long hiatus. Having re-read my statement and then your response (several times), I believe we are actually saying the same thing! My point was addressing the VIN (6-digit sequence) not BODY number. Therein lies the confusion. As you point out so well, the VIN is sequential for V8 cars for VINs beginning 1-5, 6 cyl for VINs beginning 6.

The body number is, without question, sequential for a GTO vs LeMans. The convertible body sequence is separate from the Hardtop body sequence also. I do not have as much information collected on 68 GTO VIN / body number as you - perhaps 100 all totaled. You have great knowledge. Thanks for sharing.

[68ragtop]

68ponGTO, You weren't at the Muscle car nationals last November were you?

I was about 30' away from my 68 & somebody respectfully stepped over the display & took pictures of just the tags & numbers.
Harmless, but I thought it was a little bit peculiar . I was talking to another gentleman at the time, so I didn't get a chance to find
out what the person was up to. I figured it was somebody collecting data though. Or it could have had something to do with the show?