[tom s]

FYI,Butler had a engine on their Dyno that made HP at 7200 with the Evolutions.Give him a call.Tom

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by tom s

FYI,Butler had a engine on their Dyno that made HP at 7200 with the Evolutions.Give him a call.Tom

7200 is get’n r done…I do like the design change’s they made to the plunger on the evolutions, some innovations there was long over due.

[Tim Corcoran]

Jay, what is your opinion on longevity of running a solid roller lifter on a hyd roller cam on the street. I know the OEM's ran a lot of solid flat tappet cams in the past but the modern roller cams OEM's use hyd rollers and not solids. For the street I would use a solid roller, except I worry about longevity.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

Jay, what is your opinion on longevity of running a solid roller lifter on a hyd roller cam on the street. I know the OEM's ran a lot of solid flat tappet cams in the past but the modern roller cams OEM's use hyd rollers and not solids. For the street I would use a solid roller, except I worry about longevity.

There’s not really a no or yes answer to that. I think it depends on the profile, spring pressures, expansion rates of the heads, and the hot lash.

If a HR set up makes any noise at all, and the hybrid makes none and runs about the same spring pressure with the same cam, the hybrid will out last the full HR set up.

If the HR is dead quiet, it should last just as long.

If the heads have to much expansion rate and the lash gets opened up to much hot, the hybrid probably won’t last near as long as the HR if it is functioning right. That really needs a some type of rev kit if you want it too last on the street, then it would likely out last the HR set up. The SR lifters have bigger diameter rollers, some even have heavier pins and bearings.

There are some mechanical profiles that will out last many of these current aggressive HR profiles that are running lifters that have uneven bleed rates, especially if the cam is one of those that run 51*-52* of intensity. Which is what is commonly sold. I have one of those I run as a hybrid.

I have SFT, HFT, HR’s and full SR mechanical cams in my cars, honestly the hybrids I have are my favorite street cams.

Most heavy duty Diesel engines run mechanical roller lifters. Not everything has went to HR cams, mostly they are used in the gasoline automotive engines.

[tom s]

JMHO,if you want to run solid roller buy a tight lash solid roller cam!Even the cam makers will tell you the same instead of using solid rollers on a hyd roller cam.They call it a crutch.Tom

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Jay S

There’s not really a no or yes answer to that. I think it depends on the profile, spring pressures, expansion rates of the heads, and the hot lash.

If a HR set up makes any noise at all, and the hybrid makes none and runs about the same spring pressure with the same cam, the hybrid will out last the full HR set up.

If the HR is dead quiet, it should last just as long.

If the heads have to much expansion rate and the lash gets opened up to much hot, the hybrid probably won’t last near as long as the HR if it is functioning right. That really needs a rev kit (Crower) if you want it too last on the street, then it would likely out last the HR set up. The SR lifters have bigger diameter rollers, some even have heavier pins and bearings.

There are some mechanical profiles that will out last many of these current aggressive HR profiles that are running lifters that have uneven bleed rates, especially if the cam is one of those that run 51*-52* of intensity. Which is what is commonly sold. I have one of those I run as a hybrid.

I have SFT, HFT, HR’s and full SR mechanical cams in my cars, honestly the hybrids I have are my favorite street cams.

Most heavy duty Diesel engines run mechanical roller lifters. Not everything has went to HR cams, mostly they are used in the gasoline automotive engines.

Bolded statement is what I always fear. The set of Lunati lifters I have clack like crazy when the engine warms up. These are rolling on Comp XFI lobes. I've often felt as though what I'm hearing may be a couple of the lifters collapsing, especially at idle when oil pressures are lower.

I've not had any performance or durability issues yet, but it's always in the back of my mind.

[Jay S]

Broad statements, I sure appreciate that statement, everything can break, even good ideas.

The nice thing about roller set ups is you can always replace the noisy lifter or lifters. Better to do that than wait until something goes wrong.

I got started with hybrids by Tim Bullet, I picked out some lash SR cam profiles, he pointed me a different direction it seems to check all the boxes. I have not been able to get a SR profile, even a tight lash one to run as quietly is those. Most all the tight lash mechanical profiles are designed to have more area under the curve. They accelerate the lifter longer, it is quite a bit different than a HR profile.

[tom s]

Comp told me you give up 8 degrees of duration and what ever lift you use.6 thou will loose 9 with 1.5s.Solid roller cams have the numbers built in with the lash they suggest.That was with the OF cams.Thats why they call it a crutch I guess.Mike Jones says the same thing.Tom

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by tom s

Comp told me you give up 8 degrees of duration and what ever lift you use.6 thou will loose 9 with 1.5s.Solid roller cams have the numbers built in with the lash they suggest.That was with the OF cams.Thats why they call it a crutch I guess.Mike Jones says the same thing.Tom

That is if they are lashed loose. Add up .006” cold lash then the expansion on top of that with and aluminum head your ending up at about .012” lash.

Mike is a sharp guy, he might very well have something better.

I have one engine with E heads and Howard’s .4” lobe lift profile with slightly used (dyno time) comp solid lifters with pin oiling I picked up for $250.

The other is a iron head engine with .3823” lobe lift and $430 Doug Herbert pin oiler mechanical lifters from Butler.

https://butlerperformance.com/b-9994...rt-racing.html

If I don’t like it or something comes down the road that looks better, and can always swap over the HR lifters. So far, not reason too.

I think a XFI is actually a bit too aggressive to run as a hybrid with aluminum heads. The Howard’s I have is close to as aggressive though. The bigger rocker arm ratio actually helps on a hybrid if the cam is aggressive like an XFI.

[Jay S]

Which RA 4 cam from Bulter is it? They have several that they call RA 4 replacements.

[carcrazy]

In the original post, this is the cam. Butler Exclusive Pontiac Ram Air IV "041" Hydraulic Roller Retrofit Camshaft, 287/296 232/241, .507/.541 HR113. In talking with them, they liked the Johnson short travel lifters but stated that generally their "go to" was the Comp 85701.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by carcrazy

In the original post, this is the cam. Butler Exclusive Pontiac Ram Air IV "041" Hydraulic Roller Retrofit Camshaft, 287/296 232/241, .507/.541 HR113. In talking with them, they liked the Johnson short travel lifters but stated that generally their "go to" was the Comp 85701.

Reading between the lines of their response.... All the other lifters have given problems.... The 85701's have not been around for very long..... I'm thinking "go to" = we're hopeful.

[AG]

I've installed a set of CC Evolutions and was very impressed with them. Completely quiet from the get go.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by AG

I've installed a set of CC Evolutions and was very impressed with them. Completely quiet from the get go.

I am curious, it has been stated the instruction are different, and a few have had issues, maybe to blame on adjusting them? do you recall how the instruction are different than a normal lifter?

[Tim Corcoran]

On Comp's website for the 85701 Lifter, Travel: .150 in, Recommended Preload: .100 in

[grivera]

I have a ticker in the 64 so plan on repo the set with the evolution lifters.

[AG]

Originally Posted by Jay S

I am curious, it has been stated the instruction are different, and a few have had issues, maybe to blame on adjusting them? do you recall how the instruction are different than a normal lifter?

It was a clients car and he has the directions. I don't remember exactly how I adjusted them but I think I used at least a full turn.

[locomotivebreath]

How loud is a ticking HR lifter - is it just like a collapsed flat tappet ? I have a 1,000 miles on a 14 year old set of morels from bullet and I’m paranoid but if I listen close , the engine to me just has a slight sewing machine noise . It’s a mild Bullet HR , I run 10w40 Penn Grade .

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by locomotivebreath

How loud is a ticking HR lifter - is it just like a collapsed flat tappet ? I have a 1,000 miles on a 14 year old set of morels from bullet and I’m paranoid but if I listen close , the engine to me just has a slight sewing machine noise . It’s a mild Bullet HR , I run 10w40 Penn Grade .

Slight sowing machine sound is how it is suppose to sound. A more aggressive cam will make a tick along with the sowing machine sound. A collapsed lifter is more of a clatter, if bad enough it will drowned out the sowing machine noise.

Sometimes engines will run a long time with the ticking noise, on an aggressive cam, you kind of expect it. Maybe these new lifter designs will help though. Most Bullet HR cams are pretty friendly to HR lifters, I think it is because the intensity from .050” to .006” is 54* or more, making them less aggressive. The Ram Air series cams from Bulter appear to run 55*, and my guess is they were likely introduced to help curve some of the lifter noise that people complain about. With a more aggressive intensity, higher valve spring pressures, the more ticking noise and sowing machine sound can usually be expected. A lot of the aftermarket cams are 51* to 53*, one of my cars has 49*. The lifters get the blame for noise, but some of it has to do with the common aggressive profiles we all run.