[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by thews

Thanks for making my point for me. Without data, it's just another opinion... what part did you miss?

" I can see " that statement of mine doesn't mean that they are bringing more money now, it means in the future. trust me I know the value of these cars. pulling values off of ebay is never a good way to see what Pontiacs are worth. most of the time a high dollar rare Pontiac is traded hands privately.

[Judge273]

I see that this thread is about trends and future buying habits of the next generation.

What Trans Am are going to see the collectors take notice?

The 77-78 seem to be next in line for a jump? Color specific? Options?

Do we see the 70-72 TA not in line for the jump?

[thews]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

" I can see " that statement of mine doesn't mean that they are bringing more money now, it means in the future. trust me I know the value of these cars. pulling values off of ebay is never a good way to see what Pontiacs are worth. most of the time a high dollar rare Pontiac is traded hands privately.

You are basically stating your opinion trumps the value of what the cars are selling for now, which is just your opinion. I don't give a rat's rear end how many cars you've had or what your opinion is based on, but the early T/A cars will (IMO) always be more valuable, and that's based on production numbers, performance and demand. My opinion is based on data and not some outlier where one car sold for XXX at some random auction based on a seeded bid to attempt to establish value.

The nose on the early T/A's (70-73) will distinguish them from the later years. The other years are cool, don't get me wrong (I own a 75), but it's like stating a 72 Camaro will someday eclipse a 69 Camaro... it's not going to happen. The 69 Camaro is iconic, just as the early 70-73 T/A's are iconic.

Wanna claim a uber rare Bandit car is rarer than a SD, ok, you may be right, but it's not the same. eBay is a very good metric for value... now. Without data, it's just another opinion.

[muscle_collector]

lol it really doesn't matter to me what they do I have multiples of all types. you must have a reading comprehension problem as you keep running your mouth about an opinion. of course it is an opinion. my original post was just an opinion you cant have "data" on future events. however you can look at auction results that just happened where one of them brought 170 or 175k

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

why chris said this was Monday morning my wife and I took happy and our male black shepherd deep into the woods looking for our black female shepherd who didn't come home sunday.

Did she return?

[muscle_collector]

yes 3 days later. who knows where she had been.

[Bentwheelbob]

Thanks HFR, I wondered the same thing, but hated to interrupt a "lively" discussion to ask.

As a followup question, I will ask if she brought back any additional Pontiac parts?

[dreamn69]

Look at any other car values for trends - Anyone remember the 55-57 Chevy craze in the 80's? How much has their price jumped since? It is all about what you wanted. I still want a 70-73 because I know these cars. Some people want what they had or what they couldn't afford in the day and most people just want something that looks close, regardless if it is correct. Collectors will always go for low production, high horse and rarity. Everyone else will go for what represents their specific memory. If more people remember Smokey and the Bandit, the prices will dictate their rise as we are seeing now, and while I like the Y88's, you cannot lump them in with the black SE's because people don't remember a gold Smokey and the Bandit. You also get shill bidders on Ebay the same as a live auction to run up price. Contrary to the statement about 79-81's not rising because so many were made, I think that is exactly why they will go up. More made = More bought. With so many that were wrecked, turned into oval track cars, junked etc. The demand will be there for the performance models just like the demand for an SD far outweighs the demand for an early base car. Want a real world comparison? I sold a 79 Y84 running driving project 5 years ago for $3k. I just sold one in almost the same condition for $15k.

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by dreamn69

Look at any other car values for trends - Anyone remember the 55-57 Chevy craze in the 80's? How much has their price jumped since? It is all about what you wanted. I still want a 70-73 because I know these cars. Some people want what they had or what they couldn't afford in the day and most people just want something that looks close, regardless if it is correct. Collectors will always go for low production, high horse and rarity. Everyone else will go for what represents their specific memory. If more people remember Smokey and the Bandit, the prices will dictate their rise as we are seeing now, and while I like the Y88's, you cannot lump them in with the black SE's because people don't remember a gold Smokey and the Bandit. You also get shill bidders on Ebay the same as a live auction to run up price. Contrary to the statement about 79-81's not rising because so many were made, I think that is exactly why they will go up. More made = More bought. With so many that were wrecked, turned into oval track cars, junked etc. The demand will be there for the performance models just like the demand for an SD far outweighs the demand for an early base car. Want a real world comparison? I sold a 79 Y84 running driving project 5 years ago for $3k. I just sold one in almost the same condition for $15k.

My first new car was a 79 SE with tan hobnail, bird delete. Couldn't get the three pedal in CA, ordered it at a local dealer,went to the VN plant when they used to have tours and saw it getting built( or at least one like it that day) I had at the same time a 70 RA3 T/A polar white/black 4spd, bought from the original owner. Two totally different cars- no comparison dynamically. That was during the Burt days,they were in the 3rd year of production on SE's and they were on every corner in L.A. The deal now with these is quite a few new people getting in to the hobby are finding them very hard to come by. They made a few, but unlike the 10th's where literally hundreds went right off the truck in to deep storage, these were daily drivers and the attrition rate was staggering. You can still at any time find very low mile time capsule 10th's- the woods are full of them. Now if you want an SE like that, you have a hand full of dealers that have cornered the market on them and be ready to bring a fat wallet. Who knew? but that is the nature of the hobby, if it was easy to predict which one's will catch the wind we'd all be doing it. I've got a 15 Z28 in the wrapper , think that's going to be one for the long haul and they can't give them away right now.

[thews]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

lol it really doesn't matter to me what they do I have multiples of all types. you must have a reading comprehension problem as you keep running your mouth about an opinion. of course it is an opinion. my original post was just an opinion you cant have "data" on future events. however you can look at auction results that just happened where one of them brought 170 or 175k

What auction results? Show me the data in comparison to 70-73 and 73-74SD data. I'm not the one who has a reading comprehension problem... you do. Your Carnac "insight" on what the future holds is fools gold. Disagree... prove it.

[muscle_collector]

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Archi...ANS-AM--190563

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Event...EDITION-189190

heres a couple .

and once again , I merely stated that " I can see " it . never said it was absolutely going to. however the "DATA" above seems to show it is happening now. you are trying to put words in my mouth and make it out like I have a crystal ball and know what the future holds, which I don't. you must be suffering from some issues of some type to be trying to make such a deal over me saying that I can see something happening. whether it happens on a big scale only time will tell. go back and reread the whole thread and hopefully you can comprehend what we are saying.

[Dave R]

175K for a 10th - Wow! Maybe 110K is even more surprising for the 80 Turbo.

[red1975pacer]

The tenth that sold for 175k was for sale , before the BJ auction, for 80k in Indiana. Nobody wanted it at that price. Yea 77-79 are the hot cars now, but BJ is a world upon itself price wise. Lets be realisistic here, now folks.

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

The tenth that sold for 175k was for sale , before the BJ auction, for 80k in Indiana. Nobody wanted it at that price. Yea 77-79 are the hot cars now, but BJ is a world upon itself price wise. Lets be realisistic here, now folks.

Think if you throw out the high(BJ unsophisticated buyers with more coin than knowledge) and the low(Ebay bottom feeders) it's very clear to any one in the hobby(or biz of peddling them) the SE cars are ascending in valuation at a the highest rate of any second gen bird.
IMO the early cars have pretty much peaked, or are at best holding station/incrementally creeping higher relative to valuation. The same 73SD's have been on the internet for years, and last month Mecum had a couple 74's hammer in the 60k range and even more were no sale. 71-72's are scarce, but they always have been, 70's are a notch down because you coulda had a 455. Seems like a good way to go right now are the 80-81 SE cars. You can get a nice one for 20k, and if the bottom falls out on another market collapse you're not going to get whacked like those paying a premium for the 77-79 SE's. IMO the 81 SE turbo is the move- last year for the SE, last second gen, and you have Burt officially on the brochure cover sitting on the roof in full bandit attire.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by thews

What auction results? Show me the data in comparison to 70-73 and 73-74SD data. I'm not the one who has a reading comprehension problem... you do. Your Carnac "insight" on what the future holds is fools gold. Disagree... prove it.

You seem to be getting upset & the name calling and insults have started.

Why don't you step away for a few days and come back with a new attitude so you can debate like a civilized person?

[thews]

Originally Posted by The Boss

You seem to be getting upset & the name calling and insults have started.

Why don't you step away for a few days and come back with a new attitude so you can debate like a civilized person?

You high-fivers ruin this site. One claims an opinion and the high-fivers jump in to agree... who cares? If you want to keep regurgitating your opinion based on outliers it doesn't dictate and honest argument, but rather an opinion.

The bottom line is what you can buy at what price right now. The SD cars have fallen in recent years just like the 69-70 Judges have. What used to cost $90K now will bring $60K, but it's still $60K.

With the higher production 77 and 78 T/A's, there's a following. They made over 200,000 79 Firebirds and the survivor cars don't bring that much. I sold a 79 T/A last year for $3500. It was a gold/tan 403 Olds car that ran without any rust. It's a longer story that isn't interesting enough to repeat, but the guy I sold it to did me a solid. I might have got $4K to $5K on eBay, but that's about it.

If you wanna keep agreeing with you pal's opinion, go ahead, it's just an opinion and is probably fueled by his car. A 73 SD is cool for very different reasons than a 79 Daytona and what you can get on eBay for $23K will dictate value.

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by thews

You high-fivers ruin this site. One claims an opinion and the high-fivers jump in to agree... who cares? If you want to keep regurgitating your opinion based on outliers it doesn't dictate and honest argument, but rather an opinion.

The bottom line is what you can buy at what price right now. The SD cars have fallen in recent years just like the 69-70 Judges have. What used to cost $90K now will bring $60K, but it's still $60K.

With the higher production 77 and 78 T/A's, there's a following. They made over 200,000 79 Firebirds and the survivor cars don't bring that much. I sold a 79 T/A last year for $3500. It was a gold/tan 403 Olds car that ran without any rust. It's a longer story that isn't interesting enough to repeat, but the guy I sold it to did me a solid. I might have got $4K to $5K on eBay, but that's about it.

If you wanna keep agreeing with you pal's opinion, go ahead, it's just an opinion and is probably fueled by his car. A 73 SD is cool for very different reasons than a 79 Daytona and what you can get on eBay for $23K will dictate value.

They are getting well over 60k for exemplary low mile 79 SE's currentely,those will not be found on ebay. Seems like when people don't agree with your POV they get disparaged- that won't change the fact the market is white hot for the above mentioned cars currentely. I love the early cars too but they ain't movin on up like the Burt cars. I have no pals on here, and ten posts in as many years.

[muscle_collector]

goodness do you read the stuff you are posting?
first the discussion was about opinions of future values
and you are trying to say current values which no one has been bringing up that discussion so you keep saying I want data I want data
you wanted "data" so I gave you data
now you bring up some 79 trans am with a 403 (worst choice of a collector value you can get even worse than a 301) that im sure was not a se of any type and none are worth anything because you sold yours for a measly amount of money. (im sure it was in really bad shape or you just don't know anything about values)
now since nobody seems to be joining in on your opinion you have to resort to name calling and saying we have all ruined the forum.
in the case of the original discussion, the original poster asked "what everyones thoughts are (that means opinions not facts) it doesn't matter what anyones opinion is because time will tell. the ones who believe that they will bring big money will probably have invested in them and will cash in very heavily in the future, unless there is a national catastrophe or something. I can remember many many times people telling me I had lost my mind and just threw away my money because I paid way too much for a car that was never going to be worth what I paid for it and for the last several years have been speechless when they see what I sold them for. but that is because I am in your words "carnac" and have a secret crystal ball that tells me the future on cars values.
one thing I can say is that you are amusing and fun to wait for your next post to see how off the wall it is.
conversing with you is like me trying to have a rational discussion with my wife when she is starting her period.

[thews]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

goodness do you read the stuff you are posting?
first the discussion was about opinions of future values
and you are trying to say current values which no one has been bringing up that discussion so you keep saying I want data I want data
you wanted "data" so I gave you data
now you bring up some 79 trans am with a 403 (worst choice of a collector value you can get even worse than a 301) that im sure was not a se of any type and none are worth anything because you sold yours for a measly amount of money. (im sure it was in really bad shape or you just don't know anything about values)
now since nobody seems to be joining in on your opinion you have to resort to name calling and saying we have all ruined the forum.
in the case of the original discussion, the original poster asked "what everyones thoughts are (that means opinions not facts) it doesn't matter what anyones opinion is because time will tell. the ones who believe that they will bring big money will probably have invested in them and will cash in very heavily in the future, unless there is a national catastrophe or something. I can remember many many times people telling me I had lost my mind and just threw away my money because I paid way too much for a car that was never going to be worth what I paid for it and for the last several years have been speechless when they see what I sold them for. but that is because I am in your words "carnac" and have a secret crystal ball that tells me the future on cars values.
one thing I can say is that you are amusing and fun to wait for your next post to see how off the wall it is.
conversing with you is like me trying to have a rational discussion with my wife when she is starting her period.

Are you literally begging for someone to agree with your opinion? Do you need attention that much? What part of actual data do you fail to comprehend? Your opinion is just that and it's not indicative of market value. I don't give a rat's ass about your wife or your opinion, as it's just a way to fill a need where someone agrees with you so you can feel right. You are categorically wrong and that's a fact.

[carnut4life]

You guys both have valid points but please give it up, we're suppose to be grown ups having fun and learning from each other right?