[Ron Landis]

Anyone else see the #7041273 that looked like it was dug up bring $2277.00 on E-bay? Where's my stamp kit? How can a carb that needs redone be worth more than a set of round-port heads?

[Ron Landis]

Anyone else see the #7041273 that looked like it was dug up bring $2277.00 on E-bay? Where's my stamp kit? How can a carb that needs redone be worth more than a set of round-port heads?

[68GTOConv]

It's only worth that because someone was silly enough to pay that for it ... OUCH!

Mike M

[PB]

Saw it, UNBELIEVABLE!

[Jack Peters]

IF you are restoring and numbers matching is that important then I supposed it is worth it. If the car is a run of the mill GTO or whatever then probably not. However, if it is extremely rare then maybe not.

I did quite a bit of shopping before buying my numbers matching carb 3-4 yrs ago at $965 delivered by UPS. Did it through a guy I saw in Hemmings and he had been advertising for quite a while there. Considering the rarity of it I thought I got a pretty good deal. It was rebuilt but was sold as a core only. He would not guarentee it. Non RA carbs are rarer than RA carbs.

Some people don't come here (because they don't know about us) or some other Pontic web site and ask about availability and pricing. It is kind of like walking into a new car dealership and buying a car with a second sticker and never trying to dicker the price.

Unfortunately, it is this kind of buying that escalates the price of the hobby.

[carbking]

Consider the question in a different manner: let's say you are a racer, and your competition is 1/10 of a second quicker than you are. How much will you spend to pick up that 1/10 (maybe you are already in the 10 second range)?

Now let's say that you show cars, not race them; and your competition is 2 points better than you are. How much will you spend to pick up that 2 points?

Personally, I built one race car. It was a "money pit"; I won't go there again. I also built one show car. It was a "money pit"; I won't go there again.

However, for the individual seriously interested in a true numbers matching (remember the date codes also have to match), the mentioned figure for the correct carb (that one is quite scarce) is no worse than a racer spending about the same for a set of e-heads.

And remember, for it to bring this figure, at least 2 individuals have to think it is worth the price.

Jon.

[68GTOConv]

Jon, that's a good point - two individuals have to think it is worth that price. I've done this for years, and buy/sell stock in my spare time ... and I've never once thought of it like that.

Damn man, you taught me something! And my brain doesn't even hurt now ...

Mike M

[Judge273]

Here is what I have heard about that 71 273 carb. It was the favorite of the drag racers around that time, and they snapped them up from 4 speed Judges and 455 HO ram air cars. Legend put the cfm at 850, and above. I know that if you have a 4 speed that is either a 71 Judge Conv(maybe 3 out there), Judge, Conv 455 HO ram air or hardtop car that doesn't have a correct dated 273 carb your going to pay up for the right carb and the added performance. I believe that carb was a later dated like 2nd week of March 1971 which might exclude most Judges including the Judge conv's. But, the guy who bought it had an ebay name that was like "4sd455". But, I'll also bet you probably could add HO and ram air to that, as well as deep in a resto project!

Again, I don't have facts or figures but that carb was said to be rare back then and continues to only pop up for sale once and awhile. Maybe someone else knows more than I do, but that's my two cents.

[PB]

I bet this carb might just beat that one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MakeTrack=true

[carbking]

PB - you may be correct (based on condition). Given equivilent condition, the 7041273 is much scarcer, and should command a premium. This seems to be pretty much true with manual transmission vs automatic transmission carburetors. As a general rule, the ones for standard transmission are more scarce, and command more money. When doing spring housecleaning last year, we actually found a NOS 7042273 that I had forgotton about. May try it on Ebay after the first of the year.

Judge273 - most of what you said is true, however many of the drag racers were disappointed in the performance of the single booster carb. It is one of the more difficult carbs to set up on a modified engine, but it can certainly be accomplished. Probably a lot of the ones purchased by the racers were junked, because of unsatisfactory performance.

Jon.

[Jack Peters]

Jon,

The carb I bought for my car is 7041267 (non RA 455HO, 4-speed). Not many non RA cars built. Even when you consider non GTO 455HO's only 123 total including RA and non RA. Have no Idea how many RA cars in A body, 1971 w/455HO including GTO as RA was optional in '71.

I am not going to try to do a complete resoration but major numbers matching. Carb is a major one. Have no clue what it would cost today. I still want to be able to drive it.

[carbking]

Jack - the 1267 carb is scarce, but seemingly common compared to the 1273. But you certainly bought it worth the money. I suspect you would be pleasantly surprised if you decided to sell it.

Jon.

[Jack Peters]

Jon,

You are probably right. But, the car would have to go with it and well......It has been in the family too long. Bought new, sold, bought back in '85. $200 and after I sold the 307/pg that was in it, it was a wash. Now, lets not start counting the things I have purchased for it to make it back new. I did find original engine, bought correct heads and M-22. And, probably, would have to put up with disowning by my son.

[BLKBRD]

Just to add my two cents. I've got a '68 RA I 4-spd Firebird. Except for the carburetor all of the other numbers and date codes match. I've been looking for a 7028277 carb ever since I've owned the car and have been told that I'll never find one. One carb shop told me that they've got guys lined up to buy them and that if they ever do come across them, they always get sold to the same guy(s). They wouldn't even take my number in the event that they ever had another one. I was told that the last one that came through was sold to a collector for $2300.00 as a core, and that they were performing a $1000.00 resto on it. If the new owner would sell it, I'll bet that he would ask $5k. The going rate for '69 dated RA IV cores is roughly $2500.00, but at least they can be found.

[rustedgoat]

I just had to go out to the garage and check my carbs. Yep I was right.
7040270 WA 2529
7041273 VH 0781

How do I figure out the build date and how close to the engine date do these need to be?

Now the carbs are nice and warm in my basement.

[BLKBRD]

The 7040270 has a build date of the 252nd day of 1969. The 7041273 has a build date of the 78th day of 1971. Each carb also has the application stamp "WA" or "VH" which is very important. Service replacement carbs do not have the application stamp from the factory, or at least that's what I've been told and observed. Although information varies, I've been told that all date coded components of a vehicle should be between 2 weeks and two months prior to the build date of the vehicle. I've also heard 10 days to 2 months. There are some exceptions to the rule with some of the rarer cars. I've heard about 1974 SD 455 manifolds with 1972 build dates. I've got a '69 RA IV Auto carb that is dated one week prior to the date that the vehicle was assembled. I've been told by different sources that this is both acceptable and unacceptable. If the 10 day rule holds and my vehicle was assembled at the end of its assembly week, the carb would fit within the 10 days. I imagine that this will always be an issue with my car.

[carbking]

Blkbrd - I am probably the one you talked to on the 7028277. We have NEVER owned one; and I am aware of ZERO that are available. Qnd we do have one currently in the shop. This is the only one I have ever actually seen!!! While I dislike using the word "rare"; this is a RARE carburetor. I hope you understood the reason why we did not take your name. We have an existing customer for whom we have restored at least 15 Pontiac RA carburetors, and he is looking for a couple!!! We would be remiss if we did not give him "first refusal" if we ever found one, which I never expect to do. I was simply trying to be honest with you rather than give you false hopes.

Now, how rare is it? Back when Q-Jets (and carb cores in general were relatively available) we bought the total inventory of a MAJOR carburetor core supplier of Pontiac carbs from 1957 to 1974. We had at one time over 25,000 Pontiac 4 barrel carbs, including more than 300 HO, RA, and SD units, and we have never had one. I would not say you will NEVER find one, but realistically, given the above, what are your chances? As hindsight is 20-20 (or so they say), I wish I had also purchased the Buick GS, Olds W-series, and yes even the Chevrolet performance stuff, but I didn't.

As to your comments concerning the date code: I have been campaigning for years that the low production cars cannot possibly fall in the normal date code range. For example, I am aware of only 5 production dates for the 7029273 carburetor; and it had a year and a half production run (1969 Firebird was produced through the end of December 1969), and I probably have seen as many of these as anyone. I think this would probably not be an issue with GTOAA, but do not know how the other judging authorities would consider this. If in doubt, always contact the judging authority BEFORE showing the vehicle, and get a written opinion.

And if you wish, send me the information on your carb and car, and I will send you an opinion on letterhead. Since I am tech advisor for GTOAA, this letter might carry a little "weight" (actually, about a tenth of an ounce) , but I will be happy to do the letter for you.

Jon.

[78 GHOST]

I have sought a 7040268 carb since the time I bought my car. I have been told numerous times that finding the correct and properly dated carb. was an exercise in futility.

I had spoken with Jon regarding this carb. and he was very generous with his time on this matter.

I recently located the carb. from a reputable member of the Pontiac community. I paid $500 without batting an eyelash. The carb. is totally restored and was very carefully packaged, properly represented, and arrived in beautiful condition. Finding this component after seriously looking for almost 4 years was like hitting the lottery.

Deals can still be had.

[BLKBRD]

Jon,

I understand completely and I don't hold any ill feeling toward you or your shop. You were straight with me. I think that it is a good example as to why some of these carbs command the prices that they do. As you mentioned earlier, what would it take to gain those extra points? I'd pay $3k in a heartbeat if I could find the correct date coded carb to make my car 100% numbers matching. If my numbers were off in other areas, the service replacement that I've got would more than satisfy my needs. When your car is that close, the money doesn't seem all that outrageous, and in the case of such a rare carburator, it would probably increase the value of the car more than the price of the carb. Also thanks for the offer to help with the date coding of my carb. I may take you up on it. Although I do not plan to show the car seriously, I would like to get your opinion as to whether or not this carb is too close to be considered legit. I'll have to get the exact date and get get back to you. Just so you know, it is a service replacement with a '69 date code. It does not have the application stamp on it at this time.

[slowgto]

I had no idea carbs could get that expensive. Could you guys tell me if 7040567 XS is a rare one? I was told it was for a '70 455 4spd. car.

Thanks