[Brian Baker]

Glenn,

I'm using a modified BDS. The burst panel is mounted up front in place of the water crossover, which required closing the crossover on both sides and opening it up to the intake plenum. For an alky combo that is not going to be driven in the pits or to and from the racing surface, you don't need coolant or a water pump. You could modify a BDS with the burst panel to the rear but check the rulebook first, they may not allow it to be rear facing. The alternative is a sheet-metal intake. See my engine pics on pages 21 and 27:

http://community.webshots.com/album/...NErb?start=312

[Glenn Lever]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Glenn,

I'm using a modified BDS. The burst panel is mounted up front in place of the water crossover, which required closing the crossover on both sides and opening it up to the intake plenum. For an alky combo that is not going to be driven in the pits or to and from the racing surface, you don't need coolant or a water pump. You could modify a BDS with the burst panel to the rear but check the rulebook first, they may not allow it to be rear facing. The alternative is a sheet-metal intake. See my engine pics on pages 21 and 27:

http://community.webshots.com/album/...NErb?start=312

I want to run coolent, under the NHRA Nostalgia Elimator rules for Super chargers, it does not state which way it must face, although with a front engine dragster I would rather it did not face to the rear. It does state "see General Regulation 1:10" I need to look that up.

On the BDS it appears there is a pop off valve both on the front and rear of the intake. Is that the way yours was? I was wondering if I could weld a blow off inner frame over the front hole and install the burst panel that way?

Hogan wants $3,700 for a shet metal intake, that is just out of my price range.

[Brian Baker]

Yup, my BDS had the small spring-loaded "popit" plate at the rear. I had that welded closed when I had the burst panel installed. There may be enough room to drill through the bottom of the front of the plenum floor and weld a 90-degree "tube" so that the burst panel housing hangs below the crossover, but it would be tight and require the housing to hang out in front of the block, which I don't think a factory timing cover would allow room for...not to mention the disruption to flow across the plenum floor feeding those front cylinders.

There are alternatives to Hogan's, including a shop near me that made a CV-1 intake for a fellow board members blown 4-cylinder Pontiac. Then there is the other member here (his name escapes me) who had a sheetmetal intake done by someone other than Hogan.

One thing with the sheetmetal intakes is they raise the plenum, which will allow you to run 13.9mm pulleys if you desire. With my BDS, the blower centerline to crankshaft centerline is so short, I am stuck with 14mm pulleys, because nobody makes a 13.9mm belt that is short enough. 8mm will work with smaller blowers not turning that fast however.

[Glenn Lever]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Yup, my BDS had the small spring-loaded "popit" plate at the rear. I had that welded closed when I had the burst panel installed. There may be enough room to drill through the bottom of the front of the plenum floor and weld a 90-degree "tube" so that the burst panel housing hangs below the crossover, but it would be tight and require the housing to hang out in front of the block, which I don't think a factory timing cover would allow room for...not to mention the disruption to flow across the plenum floor feeding those front cylinders.

There are alternatives to Hogan's, including a shop near me that made a CV-1 intake for a fellow board members blown 4-cylinder Pontiac. Then there is the other member here (his name escapes me) who had a sheetmetal intake done by someone other than Hogan.

One thing with the sheetmetal intakes is they raise the plenum, which will allow you to run 13.9mm pulleys if you desire. With my BDS, the blower centerline to crankshaft centerline is so short, I am stuck with 14mm pulleys, because nobody makes a 13.9mm belt that is short enough. 8mm will work with smaller blowers not turning that fast however.

What do you think of taking a wensler manifold and chopping the top off and making a blower intake out of it? http://www.wenzlerengineering.com/gutsram.htm

[Brian Baker]

Glenn,

That picture there looks like it would work just fine, and allow you to run a segregated crossover to boot.

[Glenn Lever]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Glenn,

That picture there looks like it would work just fine, and allow you to run a segregated crossover to boot.

Ok, what is a segregated crossover?

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Glenn Lever

Ok, what is a segregated crossover?

You're $h!tting me, right?

Segregate: to separate.

You've never run a Pontiac that had the water crossover separated from the rest of the manifold? Makes for easier intake manifold and gasket changes, you don't have to drain coolant to do it.

[BruceWilkie]

You can plug the water crossover holes at the head and exit the return coolant from the rear manifold face freeze plugs(heater nipple) on the head to an an aftermarket "Y" to top of radiator. No need to keep the crossover intact.

[Glenn Lever]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

You're $h!tting me, right?

Segregate: to separate.

You've never run a Pontiac that had the water crossover separated from the rest of the manifold? Makes for easier intake manifold and gasket changes, you don't have to drain coolant to do it.

Never here the trem before. Have heard of the pratice before. Sorry.

[Glenn Lever]

Well we have stumbled across a mystery, and I really do not care to solve the mystery, just the problem.

We are installing Pro-Gram engineering’s billet steel main caps in the block.

The center caps went on great, nice interference fit.

The end caps are sloppy fit and you can visibly see them move around.

I talked with Pro-Gram. They say the make all the holes the same (.313)

We measure the end cap holes as .3131

The suggestion was to use 5/16 dowels (.3125) but they fall into the holes on the caps.

We are willing to put the block in the mill and enlarge the hole for the dowel.

The block hole for the front and rear caps measure .3086 the dowels removed measure .309. We have not measured the hole in the stock cap but with the interference fit the stock cap has with the stock pins should be around .3096

Are thoughts are to get some oversized 5/15 dowels at 60 Rockwell and machine both the block and cap so that we end up with the correct interference fit. This is very important as this will a blower engine and the front cap/bearing will have a lot of pressure to perform correctly.

Currently the only source we can find for oversize dowels wants a 1.00 per dowel with a quantity of 100.

Any thoughts?

[johnta1]

Why would Pro-Gram make the holes .313" if the Pontiac dowel is .309" and normal dowels are .3125"? Does Pro-gram sell the oversize dowels to match their caps?

Could always get some bar stock and chuck it in a lathe and make your own.

[Glenn Lever]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Why would Pro-Gram make the holes .313" if the Pontiac dowel is .309" and normal dowels are .3125"? Does Pro-gram sell the oversize dowels to match their caps?

Could always get some bar stock and chuck it in a lathe and make your own.

Pro-Gram is saying that the dowels should be 5/16 (.3125) and they have never had a problem.

Fastenall makes an over size 5/16 (.0002 over .3125) which gets us close. We are currently looking at making our own, just as you suggested.

[taff2]

You could use an 8mm dowel (.315") ,ream/hone out the block and cap holes to match. I bought mine off ebay in packs of 10 ,I used extra long ones to fully engage in the caps but they do all lengths. Company was called Boneham & Turner LTD,a British company,but I don't see why they wouldn't post them to you.

[Glenn Lever]

Ok, for your review and Comments, suggestions, input????

This is the set up I have come up with after much discussion on the Pontiac blower build.

Kauffman aluminum 74 CC heads, 2.11/1.77 valve arrangement, solid roller camshaft (not yet specked.), Titanium retainers, H-11 springs and 600 series valves.

For a flat top piston, Aluminum Rods (not yet specked.), Scat forged crank 4400p40010, 4 inch stroke, 2.200 BBC Rod Journal, cylinders bored 35 over (to get a standard Chevy oversize of 4.155 bore).

With an original Wenzler tunnel ram Intake converted to a blower intake for a 8-71 LittleField 8-71 Little Field, retro, pie cut, blower with strips, and high helix, Mallory 4, Enderle 80-A1 pump, mechanical alcohol injection.

Comments, suggestions, input????

[Brian Baker]

Your short block plans sound very similar to the short block in my funny car. Won't need much of a roller cam for the HP you project (it was around 850-HP you were looking for? or more?). If more HP is projected, I would go with the larger 110 pump. Whatever pump you go with however, have the pump and injector professionally flowed to establish a good baseline to work from.

[Glenn Lever]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Your short block plans sound very similar to the short block in my funny car. Won't need much of a roller cam for the HP you project (it was around 850-HP you were looking for? or more?). If more HP is projected, I would go with the larger 110 pump. Whatever pump you go with however, have the pump and injector professionally flowed to establish a good baseline to work from.

HP is correct at 850.

Plans are to have Spud Miller ( http://fuelinjectionent.com/ ) go through both the pump and distrubor, and to provide a tune.

[Brian Baker]

Spud comes with high praise from everything I have read about him on the various blown alky forums.

[Glenn Lever]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Spud comes with high praise from everything I have read about him on the various blown alky forums.

That is what I hear also and I have talked with him.

[misterp266]

How did you make out with the dowel pin issue? Just had splayed Pro-gram caps fitted on my block with no issues on using 5/16 dowel pins. Nice snug fit on all caps.
Question. Are you filling the block before any machine work is done? Wanted to know if I should line hone before filling and then fill with the caps torqued down or fill before line honing. Or does it really matter?
I'm building a similar motor to yours. Scat 4.00 crank, .035 over 400, 310cfm E-heads but with a BDS 6:71 and carbs on gas. Street motor.

Rob...

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by misterp266

How did you make out with the dowel pin issue? Just had splayed Pro-gram caps fitted on my block with no issues on using 5/16 dowel pins. Nice snug fit on all caps.
Question. Are you filling the block before any machine work is done? Wanted to know if I should line hone before filling and then fill with the caps torqued down or fill before line honing. Or does it really matter?
I'm building a similar motor to yours. Scat 4.00 crank, .035 over 400, 310cfm E-heads but with a BDS 6:71 and carbs on gas. Street motor.

Rob...

Definately torque the mains before filling or machine work. When I did that 528 Ford build I also torqued a head on the side I wasnt filling, filled the other side and torqued that head on and let it set up. A few days later unbolted the other head filled that side and reinstalled torqued that head. Then when that was done the heads came off and it went to the machine shop.

FWIW block fill supports the cylinders better(cuts cylinder wall distortion under load) but really doesnt strengthen the block.






BTW, I never used the motor. The guy that bought it put it in his 3000 lb Mustang race car and went 8.97 off the trailer vs his old 521 combo's best of 9.46(before it blew up). I had built for 3500 lb car hoping to go 9.50's. Ford build was very similar build as you would do a Pontiac for that level. Except for distributor/oil pump location factory 460 block very similar to a Pontiac.