[78w72]

i have driven & riden in my friends 2001 ws6 & even mostly stock its a very fun car, they go for $6-8k in decent shape around here & real nice ones for arond $10k, so figured if i sold the 81 i would have quite a bit of $$ left in my pocket to justify the trade. plus 2 2nd gens is enough, gotta move on to some more modern technology.

best place to tap in for a boost gauge whether permanent or just one taped to teh windshield for testing is right where the vac controller gets its vac source from the engine, splice a t- fitting in the rubber line & run it where you want, easy to cap off if its not a permanent one. i just used a vac/boost test gauge taped to the windshield to set the psi but i do have a permanent one to put in one of teh a/c holes in the dash bezel.

the cold high idle is either the choke fast idle screw set too high, try turning it down a bit or backing off the choke dial a tad. or its the ISC (idle speed control) solenoid. they are known to go bad but can be rebuilt or replaced with a new one. the 81 cars were the first years of the computer control so the carb, timing & all controls are done by the ECM, you cant even adjust the base idle screw, the computer will over ride it. surprised you dont have some check engine codes going on too. best bet is to get a 81 gm manual if you want to work on it, or sign up at 301 garage & ask tons of questions or do hours & hours of research. im a long time member there (81pacecar) & the owner joe is an endless resource of knowledge & help. the manual is available at 78ta.com for $15 & worth every penny.

they are a bitch to work on but when running right they are pretty decent little cars.

[72projectbird]

Thanks for supplying all this good info! I'll try tweaking some things and report back. I'll also head over to 301G and post up!

I have a pic of my old Recaro passenger side base, and the new Mustang one. Clearly you can see I needed to fix it. Do you have any idea on how to remove the hinge off the seat back? It looks like a giant flat head screw but it wont turn.

[78w72]

holy cow! i have never seen a seat frame that far gone, even on some of the parts cars i get up north that have been sitting in a field for 15-20 years!

on the t/a recaros its a big machine headed allen screw, mustangs may be a flat headed screw, either way it wont turn because the factory used loctite on the threads. CAREFULLY use a propane torch & direct the flame right onto the head of the screw with some thin metal placed around teh seat fabric area to shield them from the heat. after a minute or 2 the screw will turn out, just gotta heat up the thread locker crap. always fun tearing into a rare set of recaros!

let me know if you have any other questions, ive owned a few of these pace cars & have done just about everything there is to do on them as far as maintnance or restoration goes.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 78w72

holy cow! i have never seen a seat frame that far gone, even on some of the parts cars i get up north that have been sitting in a field for 15-20 years!

This car was in a no name storm up here that caused salt water to pour onto the streets. Supposedly the car had water up to the center caps of the wheels. That would explain why the floors don't exist anymore.

I'll give the seats another go today. I can hardly wait to put them in my 71

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

Yeah, but the 301 cant move out of its own way. I do like the engine though, and it runs great as the previous owner had it rebuilt. I do think I'll have to rebuild the turbo, but the engine seems to run real strong.

I have a 1980 turbo pace car. While its no 455, or 400 W72, its really quite spunky & funny too drive. Where it lacks is right off the line when you floor it. Otherwise if you can live with a little turbo lag, they are quite fun to drive. Mine will even give a 2nd gear chirp many times.

I bought my car from the original owner with 52K (+/-) miles on it. She was selling because after years of storage from raising a family, time had caused the car to run horribly. She brought it to two local mechanics in her area who only exasperated the situation. Frustrated she put the car for sale in auto trader (back when it was only a magazine)

When I picked it up I could barely keep it running well enough to get it on the trailer to bring it home. After a long time of studying, I found all the problems to be vacuum related. The "mechanics" bypassed some of the hoses & adjusted things way out of spec. (timing, carb, etc)

I re-routed the vacuum lines correctly & I found two leaking valves. One I beleive was the manifold pressure switch (don't recall its proper name)
Once everything was back to factory correct & vacuum leaks eliminated, the car ran like a million bucks. Unbelievable night & day by comparison in fact. still to this day it starts great, idles smooth & very fun to drive.

I mostly wanted to chime in on this because these turbo engines really need to have everything correct (in stock form) to run correctly. Crazy sensitive with vacuum.

I bought the car because of its good looks, but I learned to have a small crush on the little 301 turbo.

[78w72]

68ragtop: agreed the 301t can run pretty good for what it is. they got a bad rap because of the factory keeping the boost lower than designed to avoid warranty issues with the little tested turbo, they could blow head gaskets or detonation from poor fuel owners might use etc. compared to a stock w72 t/a or mid 70's 455 they werent that far off. HP rating were the same as the w72 400 @ 220. it just came on differently. off the line they didnt have the torque so people thought they were dogs, but if you held the brake a little & built the boost for a second or 2 they launch like a little slingshot! & they would equal or maybe even beat the bigger engine cars from a rolling punch or highway punch. plus they handled better than other ws6 cars because the 301 was like 160lb lighter. & they got great mpg that a 455 or 400 could never get. cruising at 60-65 they can get 18+mpg.

as for the vac issues & poor running, that was another reason for the bad rap, only a certified GM tech knew how to work on the worlds only turbo v8 engine & what was very rare turbos in general.... "bubba's garage" had no clue how to work on them & usually made the problems worse. then to top that all off, the 81 cars got computer controls, which practically nobody knew how to work on for many years untill computer cars became popular, & even then the 81's were a 1 year only, they went to OBD 1 & 2 right after that, the 81 was pre-OBD. think q-jets are difficult to work on? try working on an electrically controlled one. that was alien technology back in the 80's & even the 90's. shoot, probably even worse today since they are so rarely seen.

the vac problem you described on your 1980 was related to the PEVR valve, its what controlled the carb, kind of a boost referance signal for the carb to supply the needed fuel under boost, without it they would run like crap & could cause major damage from too lean or rich conditions. you should have a threaded rod on the vac waste gate controller, if you want a little extra power, hook up a boost gauge to see where youre at, bet its around 5psi, then turn it a half turn at a time & raise the boost to the designed 9psi or maybe even 10psi. but be carefull if they are original head gaskets if you up the psi & be sure to run premium gas to avoid detonation. youd be surprised just how good they can run.

well worth keeping the 301t alive & its far time they got some respect for what they are... mine ran mid 14's with just getting the boost to stock levels, do some other minor common tricks & mods & they can run in the 13's pretty easily, & some are in the mid to low 12's with no head or intake porting. that is impressive no matter who you are. just think, if the 301t didnt get canned by gm after 2 years, the development gm could have done with a turbo v8 would have been just as impressive or more than what became of the turbo v6 grand nationals!

[72projectbird]

All good points guys!

I finished up the seat. I ended up using the whole frame from the Mustang. The seat back had holes rotted right through the frame

I managed to keep the material in perfect shape, and combined with the mustang seats I now had perfect bolster foam!

[78w72]

awsome, looks great! those bolsters are notorious for going flat from people just plopping down on them & pivoting to get the rest of the way into the seat. glad you were able to save the seat. i swapped a complete passenger side seat bottom to fix my crushed driver side boltser. the 2 sides are universal. hands down the best seat ever put in any classic american car.

did the heat trick work for the seatback screw? or did you get it out on its own.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 78w72

awsome, looks great! those bolsters are notorious for going flat from people just plopping down on them & pivoting to get the rest of the way into the seat. glad you were able to save the seat. i swapped a complete passenger side seat bottom to fix my crushed driver side boltser. the 2 sides are universal. hands down the best seat ever put in any classic american car.

did the heat trick work for the seatback screw? or did you get it out on its own.

Well wouldn't you know it, my torch was empty. So I took a chisel and made notches in the bolt, and hammered it out. It came out clean so I just grabbed another bolt off the Stang seat.

I ended up getting on 301G so I'll be posting up my thread over there also. I'll still be updating this one also!

[78w72]

glad you got it out. signing up at 301g is really the best thing a guy with one of these cars can do. no offense to most people on here & other forums, but majority of them will all telll you to swap a 455 in the car, or just badmouth the 301t. 301g will be a huge asset for you on any aspect of the car.... especially if i/they can convince you to leave the 301t in there.

im sure i will chat with ya over there too.

[72projectbird]

I realize I haven't updated this thread on this forum in a while. Progress has been slow, with other projects getting in the way, but I have an update. The rust is gone! The floors are in, the rear window channel is fixed, the dash looks like new, and the jambs have been painted.

Sorry some of the pics are small. They were from another phone, and for whatever reason they're little.

[74Grandville]

any of the brown firebird in there? =)

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 74Grandville

any of the brown firebird in there? =)

Haha actually, there is!

I used the flat hood off the brown car to help repair the corners of the dash, and a small section in front of the rear wheel. There's also some little kick knacks that'll find their way into the car at some point.

How's your bird coming along?

[74Grandville]

Good, i fixed some odds and ends that needed some touch up. (headliner, window seal, clean up the engine bay, and removed the aftermarket radio) Besides that I havn't done much. i'm currently building a 400 for it out of parts i have laying around. should be in there later in the year I hope. I missing having power.

[Skip Fix]

If you have it down that far I would think about welding the top seam completely. The T tops let it flex and the factory -at least on my 78- only used 3 spot welds per side to attach the Fisher roof. Then the leaded over it. On mine even pulling it and out of the body shop it would flex enough to crack the light skim of filler over the factory lead.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 74Grandville

Good, i fixed some odds and ends that needed some touch up. (headliner, window seal, clean up the engine bay, and removed the aftermarket radio) Besides that I havn't done much. i'm currently building a 400 for it out of parts i have laying around. should be in there later in the year I hope. I missing having power.

Cool! I'm sure after driving that 455 around, the 301 just isn't gonna cut it. lol

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

If you have it down that far I would think about welding the top seam completely. The T tops let it flex and the factory -at least on my 78- only used 3 spot welds per side to attach the Fisher roof. Then the leaded over it. On mine even pulling it and out of the body shop it would flex enough to crack the light skim of filler over the factory lead.

Funny you should mention that, there was actually a few cracks along the inside of the window channel, right near the top of the quarter where the roof meets it. All of those have been welded up. I really hope it doesn't come back.

[72projectbird]

Here are some more pics of the 81 in its current stage. I took some close ups of the body, showing how it now has zero rust anywhere! The white you see in the jambs is the actual body color, minus the clear coat. Same with the black around the window and t-top channels.

I just got the frame pulled off today. I'll begin tearing that down this week.

[The Boss]

I admire all of you guys who can pull a car that far apart and get it back together.

Any time I've gotten them that far - I've been parting them!

[TAKerry]

Originally Posted by The Boss

I admire all of you guys who can pull a car that far apart and get it back together.

Any time I've gotten them that far - I've been parting them!

When I had my car to that point during restoration my brother looked at it and said ' I hope you know how it goes back together'. My reply was "Me too!"

Car is looking good. Nice to get rid of the rust and starting to get some real paint on it.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by The Boss

I admire all of you guys who can pull a car that far apart and get it back together.

Any time I've gotten them that far - I've been parting them!

Believe me, if it wasn't a pace car, it would've been parted out. I probably wouldn't of bought it in the first place lol

Originally Posted by TAKerry

When I had my car to that point during restoration my brother looked at it and said ' I hope you know how it goes back together'. My reply was "Me too!"

Car is looking good. Nice to get rid of the rust and starting to get some real paint on it.

I took extensive pictures before taking the car apart, so that should help. I've torn apart my 71 so many times, that most of the assembly is second nature haha. The stuff under the hood is all new to me, so that's where most of my head scratching will take place