[Poncho60]

As I recall I think there were two manual 3 speed transmissions in 59 & 60. The base was a light duty unit same as or similar to Chevy, and then there was the heavy duty T-85. Am I correct? Thx in advance for any feedback/replies. RA

[Peter Serio]

According to my old Hurst instruction sheets, that sounds right. The stock 3 speed (column) shift was not synchronized in first or reverse gears. It was a solid cast iron GM transmission first used in the 1955 Chevrolet.

It had a 4 bolt side-cover. The optional transmission was a 9-bolt side cover Borg Warner T-85. There are several different versions of that transmission which had to do, mainly with the length of the tailshaft extension. The T-85 is a very good transmission and it was fully synchronized in first gear. The T-85 is What BW started with to adapt into the first 4 speed Borg Warner transmissions used by Chevrolet (as an extra cost option) in the late 1950s for both the Corvette and full size cars. Everybody remembers the T-10.

[Stuart]

That was the case in 1961, I assume it was the same in the previous years. The lighter duty transmission was standard in a Catalina or Ventura. The heavier duty transmission was standard in Bonnevilles and Star Chiefs, and was also used in Catalinas and Venturas equipped with 425A Trophy engines.

[Poncho60]

Thx for the replies. I'm a little surprised about the T-85 being synchro in 1st. I thought the 1st GM full synchro 3 speed was the Saginaw which came out in '66. Learned something new. Thx again.

[Peter Serio]

Photos of the old Hurst direction sheets: The Chevrolet non-syncro cast iron vs the optional BW T-85 transmission.

[Jack Gifford]

What's not widely known is the fact that the '59 (and maybe '60?) Pontiac light-duty 3-speed had Corvette "close ratio" 3-speed gears- 2.21 1st and 1.32 2nd. Back in '59 I used that transmission in my Pontiac-powered '37 Buick opera coupe. With 3.55 gears in the '55 Chev rear end, the almost-stock Tri-power '57 engine could run over 100 mph in 2nd gear!

[U47]

We know Pontiac didn't offer a close ratio T-85. We also know Chrysler corp. did offer the T-85. You could go to a Chrysler / Plymouth or Dodge dealer and order a close ratio 2.09 first and a 1.44 second from them and make a close ratio T-85.

[61-63]

Fords, jeeps, and other makes also used t-85s; the Fords usually had overdrive units. I once owned a Southgate built '61 Bonneville bubbletop that was sold at Wilkin's Pontiac in Van Nuys and came radio delete, std. brakes and steering, 425a engine, and t-85 hd three speed. There was at least one other car equipped the same way sole by Wilkins that I've come across. I am told that Beswick and many others actually raced with the t-85 rather than a t-10 4 speed because they knew they would get all the way down the track with the t-85 but sometimes not so with the t-10, which was originally designed for the '57 Corvette and couldn't take the torque of the big cube engines everyone started coming out with in the early 60s. Wanger's supposedly won the Nationals in the '60 Royal car with a t-85. t-85s and parts were pretty much used up by the circle track racers. I've owned two or three over the years and when you remove the side plate the gears are usually chewed up.

[421mike]

I am the second owner of my southgate built 61 Bonneville. It came with a 318 tri power and a HD T-85. the T-85 is not secronized in first gear. I still have the original plus another I bought from a member here. They have huge gears and a very heavy case. They were also used behind some max wedge Dodges because they are very tough. I also have an NOS hurst shifter from another member. I grew up three blocks from Wilkins Pontiac and they got a lot of my money. My car was a heavy duty Bonneville that came with standard steering. non power brakes HD suspension and rides like a stage coach. Handles great though. Engine is going to get it's first rebuild. Also have a clone built SD 421 which is very tough on tires. Have been running a long tailshaft Munci close ratio behind it. Car is all apart for a ground up restore.

[389]

That must be the three speed transmission my neighbor swapped to. He had a brand new 65 GTO four speed and kept blowing transmissions, he swapped to a three speed and never had any issues after that. He raced the car a lot, it had a 421 with dual quads.. He bought it from Walker Pontiac in Pittsburgh with that motor..

[Poncho60]

Depending on when he actually did it, could also have been the Dearborn (Ford) three speed which were pretty much unbreakable for the most part.

[Rocky 389]

I bought the engine/trans from a stock 59 Pontiac ambulance. The transmission was the Borg Warner H/D 3 speed. The car also had the cast iron finned brake drums.