[1oldgoat]

I found this GTO on ebay. Looks like a lot of work has been done on a car with nice options. I see a few things that are not correct. What do you think about the partial VIN stamp on the block?

Link to Ebay auction: https://www.ebay.com/itm/233284296675

[dataway]

That would be the most perfectly stamped VIN I have ever seen on a Pontiac engine.

Here it is blown up and compared to the VIN on my Arlington 68. Only problem I see with the font is the "0" look wrong. Who knows if the same stamps were used at Baltimore and Arlington.

It's way straighter on the block (vertical) than most I've seen.

[1oldgoat]

Originally Posted by dataway

That would be the most perfectly stamped VIN I have ever seen on a Pontiac engine.

Here it is blown up and compared to the VIN on my Arlington 68. Only problem I see with the font is the "0" look wrong. Who knows if the same stamps were used at Baltimore and Arlington.

It's way straighter on the block (vertical) than most I've seen.

That's what I was thinking. None of my engines have one that perfect. It might be original but looks a little odd. Still, it's a cool car. I also can't make out the codes on the PHS.

[johnta1]

It would be nice to have the BHC pic close-up.

[johnta1]

Just looked at my notes.
Thread on it:

68 RA Convert

[68ragtop]

Weren't those gang stamped with a really big "hammer" ?

Data's stamp looks heavy on the top & light on the bottom across all characters, Which I would expect
with one big whack on the line.

[1oldgoat]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Just looked at my notes.
Thread on it:

68 RA Convert

Thanks for posting this link. The additional pictures in that thread help. They show the correct block casting number and the Ebay pictures show the correct "31" casting heads. What do you think about the partial VIN stamp?

[johnta1]

Looks like it's stamped 'perfect'.
Seems deep, probably a big guy hammering?

It is a high performance block.

[1oldgoat]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Looks like it's stamped 'perfect'.
Seems deep, probably a big guy hammering?

It is a high performance block.

The EUN and the engine code stamps look "normal". The partial VIN looks different. I'm not saying it's not legit, it just looks different than the one on my original, unrestored 68 Ram Air I car.

[johnta1]

Yours was an Arlington car I think?
This would need Baltimore examples to see what they look like probably?

[1oldgoat]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Yours was an Arlington car I think?
This would need Baltimore examples to see what they look like probably?

You’re probably right about needing another Baltimore built block to compare it to. Mine is a Pontiac built car.

[dataway]

I probably wouldn't think twice if it was a run-of-the-mill GTO ... but one that rare needs extra scrutiny in my opinion.

I'd want to see the matching VIN on the frame.

To re-stamp a block they usually have to mill the front of the block to clear off the old numbers, the factory used some pretty big fly cutters to cut the block. I'd be looking for a "too nice" finish on the front of the block in the area of the VIN ..... but usually that almost wipes the EUN too.

Only thing that really stands out to me is how well aligned it is vertically ... usually they were kind of random .... but with low production high perf engine ... jeez, who knows, maybe they took more time with them.

Bottom line, with a car like that you can't be too careful ... nobody is out there faking cars like mine, just a plain jane gto.

[68ragtop]

Thats for sure.... the more money involved, the more a person has to be cautious & do their homework. I think the reason numbers matching adds so much value is the same reason a RA car is worth more. Less made of a desirable option & less cars made it out of their hay days with he original drivetrain.

The odds of a drive train staying in the same car for the first 10-15 years is a crapshoot. Nobody thought anything of swapping engines, blocks, etc for a better running engine back then. Vin match meant nothing back then & did nothing to effect the values when they were newer.

That brings a thought to mind. R/A cars where probably more likely to retain the original engines only because of their increased performance right from the factory. But they were also more likely to be the cars that got hammered a little more & probably saw a higher percentage of failures. Do they cancel each other out & make engine swaps just as common back then on a std engine cars vs a higher hp? Most likely swapped for different reasons though

[PurelyGTO68]

Keep in mind that all 1968 Ram Air GTOs had the 4.33 gear ratio. I think that is the main reason why many of the original engines did not survive and remain with the car.

[red1975pacer]

I would believe that these cars were more likely to keep the original engine since owners probably knew what they had. Light modifications, such as what you see on todays muscle cars , but not tossing out original components. Look at the 87 Grand Nationals, lightly modified, but not, discarded as examples of what im saying

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

I would believe that these cars were more likely to keep the original engine since owners probably knew what they had. Light modifications, such as what you see on todays muscle cars , but not tossing out original components. Look at the 87 Grand Nationals, lightly modified, but not, discarded as examples of what im saying

Agree'd, but when do you think people really started thinking that way? Seems fairly common to see a low mile late 70's car, an anniversary car, or some other "instant collectible" & very common to see a late 80's GN, GTA, etc with almost no miles. But you pretty much never see a 60's car thats original with low miles. I really wonder if people really knew what they had back then as collecting was that big of a thing yet. I am just speculating of course as I was in diapers when the Judge rolled off the line.

getting off topic just a little

[dataway]

From what I've always heard the RA cars were far more prone to having the engine replaced. In the first case, many had SR engines during warranty after heavy footed customers blew them up. Next a lot were purchased with the intent of weekend racing, more blown engines, lower rear end ratios, more manual transmissions ... more blown engines.

Compared to the plain jane GTO with AC, standard engine, auto trans, not many of those got thrashed the way the RA cars did. Take another step down ... Lemans, tons of them with the original engine because even fewer people beat on those.

[Verdoro 68]

Exactly. People knew what they were buying and treated them as such. The 3.90/4.33 rears did them no favors in terms of conservation.