[grivera]

I went for a long drive on Sunday in 90 degree weather. About an hour in, I filled up with a full tank of 93 octane. Engine temps during driving fluctuated between 185-195 degrees. After fueling up, I stopped at a light and the car stalled out. It would then crank and “buck” but wouldn’t start. With help, I pushed it to a side road and attempted numerous times to start it. Even considered it might be flooded so tried the pedal to the floor method and no dice. On a couple of occasions I didn’t even get a click at the starter/no crank, but the dome light would light when door open. The battery remained strong otherwise and cranked at regular speed. All wire connections visible on top of engine look normal. There was no electrical smoke, pop, etc. I ended up towing it home and it sits waiting on me to fix it.

It has an electric in-tank Walbro 255 lph pump with ½” supply and return. I could hear the pump running and smelled gas at carb. I haven’t yet checked for spark. Dizzy is Dave’s Small Body HEI and coil is Summit brand e-core. Engine harness was replaced in 2011 with an M&H set up and HEI 12V wire - only about 2k miles on harness and 300-400 miles on this engine. About 9 months ago I swapped out the ignition switch on steering column. I have a 4 gauge cable from battery to a lug in trunk which powers fuel pump relay. That wire runs through firewall and along door sill guard, under rear seat into trunk.

I hope to get to it this weekend. I plan on checking for spark first then 12 volts at coil. Will also look at the starter wiring.

Any thoughts or ideas?

[tstevea]

Ignition module if no spark

[P@blo]

Could be pick-up coil or even a bad rotor so I'd pull the cap and have a look first.

[steve25]

If the accelerator pump makes fuel shot then I would say the pick up coil went open and a test with a timing light to see if it flashes will comfrim spark or not .

[grivera]

I'm looking forward to digging in. Any comments on why on a couple of occasions it didn't turn over at all, or "click" the starter?

[ponchjoe]

Check to see if the carbon button in the cap snapped off, I’ve had that happen

[steve25]

Cranking issues need to be broken down into either does it happen only when the motor is hot or has been sitting hot for 10 minutes and is now heat soaked, or the no Crank condition is random.

If it takes place when hot only then it could be the starter solenoid, Battery connections , or the switch in your case that's on the top of the base of the steering column.

When the motor does not Crank and you have your headlights on then if you do not see them dim then that atleast confirms that your Battery is good and something electrical connection is not closing to Crank the motor.
At that point your taking about a bad ignition switch on the lower base of the column, or the starter solenoid.

If your not running headers then many times when the motor does not Crank you can slip a screw driver down into the end of the starter and place a short across the Battery terminal and the Crank terminal and regardless if the solenoid is bad or not the motor will Crank.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Check battery voltage on battery terminals, not cable terminals ~ 12.6 is full charge.
Proceed to clean and tighten terminals. Hopefully you don’t have any $2 bolt on battery terminals. Or one of those green knob quick disconnects. If you do make sure all are making good contact and not getting hot when cranking.

Check for spark at the plug, further diagnose if no spark.

Check for fuel discharge from carb, further diagnose info fuel available.



I’m going to guess at connection/s at starter need attention.

Define “buck?”
Did it ever sputter or fire when you tried to start?

[phil400]

Did the engine slowly die or just quit on ya with no warning?

[grivera]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

Check to see if the carbon button in the cap snapped off, I’ve had that happen

I don't recall the small cap having a carbon button - maybe I don't know what that is?

Originally Posted by steve25

Cranking issues need to be broken down into either does it happen only when the motor is hot or has been sitting hot for 10 minutes and is now heat soaked, or the no Crank condition is random.

If it takes place when hot only then it could be the starter solenoid, Battery connections , or the switch in your case that's on the top of the base of the steering column.

When the motor does not Crank and you have your headlights on then if you do not see them dim then that atleast confirms that your Battery is good and something electrical connection is not closing to Crank the motor.
At that point your taking about a bad ignition switch on the lower base of the column, or the starter solenoid.

If your not running headers then many times when the motor does not Crank you can slip a screw driver down into the end of the starter and place a short across the Battery terminal and the Crank terminal and regardless if the solenoid is bad or not the motor will Crank.

I failed to mention I let the car cool to 150 on gauge before calling the tow truck - it cranked but no attempt to start - like no spark sound

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Define “buck?”
Did it ever sputter or fire when you tried to start?

The buck was similar to when an engine has too much timing. It didn't even sputter .

Originally Posted by phil400

Did the engine slowly die or just quit on ya with no warning?

died without warning.

[indymanjoe]

my neutral safety switch acted up occasionally with a no crank situation. Doesn't explain the rest of your dilemma though.

[rohrt]

It sounds like you might have got a bad tank of Gas. Friend of mine had the same thing happen. He filled up and didn't make it a mile and the car died. Ended up being to much water in the gas.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by rohrt

It sounds like you might have got a bad tank of Gas. Friend of mine had the same thing happen. He filled up and didn't make it a mile and the car died. Ended up being to much water in the gas.

Seems unlikely as it was Costco gas - but everything is suspect

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by grivera

I stopped at a light and the car stalled out. It would then crank and “buck” but wouldn’t start... ...attempted numerous times to start it... ...On a couple of occasions I didn’t even get a click at the starter/no crank, but the dome light would light when door open.

It has an electric in-tank Walbro 255 lph pump with ½” supply and return. I could hear the pump running and smelled gas at carb. I haven’t yet checked for spark.

I hope to get to it this weekend. I plan on checking for spark first then 12 volts at coil. Will also look at the starter wiring.

Any thoughts or ideas?

WHAT starter motor? How old/how many miles?

Until you check for spark, all we can do is make wild guesses.

[grivera]

The starter is a mini IMI- About 2k miles on it.

[phil400]

I'd look at spark. Anytime I've ever had a car just die on me has always been spark related.

[george kujanski]

Assuming the car dying and simultaneous cranking and starter motor related issues are due to the same fault, it seems like an electrical problem getting power to the cranking system and ignition system.

1. poor connection at the fusible link which provides power to the ignition switch and related.

2. Ignition switch related issues

3. Wiring issues at the starter if that's where the battery connection and the battery feed to the harness are joined.

If the ignition dying and the starting issues are separate faults, check each system for wiring issues (for the starter) and check for spark from the ignition system. if no spark, check for power going to the ignition system and then drill down as necessary. Connect battery directly to the proper terminal on the dist and try for spark. This will eliminate all intermediate wiring for ignition power.

george

[phil400]

Just wanted to add,I've had a pick coil go bad on me. Quick.and easy test, connect test light ground to Positive batt terminal, put probe in tach of dizzy, no blinking light means bad pick up coil or maybe coil,blinking light but no spark is coil.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Assuming the car dying and simultaneous cranking and starter motor related issues are due to the same fault, it seems like an electrical problem getting power to the cranking system and ignition system.

1. poor connection at the fusible link which provides power to the ignition switch and related.

2. Ignition switch related issues

3. Wiring issues at the starter if that's where the battery connection and the battery feed to the harness are joined.

If the ignition dying and the starting issues are separate faults, check each system for wiring issues (for the starter) and check for spark from the ignition system. if no spark, check for power going to the ignition system and then drill down as necessary. Connect battery directly to the proper terminal on the dist and try for spark. This will eliminate all intermediate wiring for ignition power.

george

Where is the fusible link for the ignition switch located?

Originally Posted by phil400

Just wanted to add,I've had a pick coil go bad on me. Quick.and easy test, connect test light ground to Positive batt terminal, put probe in tach of dizzy, no blinking light means bad pick up coil or maybe coil,blinking light but no spark is coil.

This sounds easy to do - will give it a shot, hopefully tomorrow

[Greg Reid]

I'm thinking along the same lines as George...What would trouble me is that some times you're not getting the starter to turn. That would have nothing to do with ignition or fuel. You either have two separate problems or one thing that is common to ignition and starter voltage.
So, the starter problem was just a couple of times...or fairly regular?
Checking for spark should be 1st thing on the list.