#1  
Old 06-18-2014, 09:57 AM
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70ra455 70ra455 is offline
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Default 1966 Grand Prix 421 Tri-power 4 speed Rebuild

OK guy's ... I'm going to share my rebuilding experience with all of you ... please understand that this thread will reveal my total inexperience in full car restorations. I've owned and driven many cars but never have I attempted to rebuild one ... and certainly not to this degree. This is a full restoration ... either ground up or frame off ... still haven't decided that one.

Background:
I was on FB and someone asked if anyone wanted the car. The price was very reasonable and I jumped on it. My wife thought I was nuts but be that as it may I went ahead an purchased the car. That was the easy part.

The hard part was that it was in Canada ... 2,000 miles away ... and I couldn't find anyone to pick up the car ... unless I wanted to spend $4,000 - 10,000! ... yes I got quotes that high. So I decided to go pick it up myself. Again ... my bride thought I was crazy and she was worried for my safety (lol) but I was going to get it and get it I did.

At the same time my youngest son was suffering from tremendous emotional issues and addiction issues which was breaking our hearts each and every day. My young boy who was my best buddy his entire life was hurting and my wife and I tried everything in our power but nothing was helping. I asked him to take the trip with me but his depression wouldn't allow him to say yes. (As a side note I also asked him earlier to go away with me for 3 months into the mountains and just fish, cook, walk, hike or whatever (he loved the outdoors) but he wouldn't bite on that either.) One of the reasons I bought the car was to see if we couldn't do the project together since he seemed to have an interest in mechanical things (he was actually a computer software engineer for HP).

So one friend from our church lent me his trailer and another lent me his time and skills and off we went! Towing a 3,000 lb trailer with my 2004 Tahoe we sped off through Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, and Montanna before crossing into Canada. We got to the hotel in Canada around 2 a.m. so we made the 2,000 mile trip in 36 hours with the trailer.

Woke up early in the A.M. and went to the farm where the car was sitting in a field. After 3 hours of hijinks we finally got the car loaded. It came with a 455 in it and the original 421 tripower engine was sitting on a pallet. We loaded it in front of the GP ... half on the trailer and half on the tongue ... lol ... thanks to help from a "Hutterite" named John who lived "across the street" from the farm where he and his 189 people "family" living in the same house ... yep ... farmed 40,000 acres! ... yes, 40,000 acres! ... and with John's invaluable help we were loaded and left to go back home.

2 days later we were home in Michigan unloading the car into the garage where all the fun would happen! Total trip time 3 days 23 hours ... total miles ... 4,000 ... total cost ... under $2,000 including my new electronic braking sensor for the trailer! ... total cost of getting through customs ... ZERO! ... the professionals may have to pay for their cargo but individuals do not! ZERO DOLLARS and about 10 minutes at a very busy customs crossing.

I will post pictures of the car pre-putting it in the garage ... the farm ones are obvious ... the others are the trip home ... and the last one is tucked away in the garage. I will share more later ... the trip was November 3-5 2013.
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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
  #2  
Old 06-18-2014, 10:02 AM
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Some more pics ... threw in the dinosaur since it was so cool in the middle of "Nowhere'sville" Montanna ...
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__________________
1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
  #3  
Old 06-18-2014, 10:15 AM
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Heybuck Heybuck is offline
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Let me say first up, and as a fellow '66GP owner, how much I'm looking forward to reading your thread as you progress.

And what a great colour combo. One of the best.

Sorry to hear of your sons troubles. My youngest daughter is a youth worker specifically dealing in substance abuse in kids aged from 12 to 21!! In fact when she started her career she was in a few cases younger than the people she looks after. We have heard some very sad stories from her but equally, she has seen many kids shake off the demon and have moved on in life. I certainly hope your son is one of the success stories. I'm sure he will be.

Good luck and keep focused

Ian

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  #4  
Old 06-18-2014, 10:47 AM
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Looks pretty solid for sitting in a field. Neat car also.

Sorry to hear about your boy. My wife has lost both a brother and a nephew to addiction and emotional related issues. Keep making the efforts. That 3 month get a way sounds like a good way to simplify life again.

I wish you the best.

  #5  
Old 06-18-2014, 10:48 AM
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OK ... before we get to where I'm at now ... and how I got there since November ... I must share that most important event in my life to date.

My son, who had been suffering from depression and addiction (hearing voices etc) and a total lack of joy and hope ... took his own life one week after I got back. My world ended that day ... never to be the same. My best buddy was gone ... and I will never be able to communicate how much he was loved and cared for since the day he was born until his last day. My attempt at a father-son project was just another failure in my attempt(s) to help him in any way possible. The car project was put on hold ... maybe forever? I just wanted to curl up and go away to a cave somewhere ... but there was still my oldest son, his lovely wife who is like my own daughter, and a grandchild on the way (who is now here Praise God!) and of course my ministry as an Ambassador of Jesus' as a pastor of a church. So I had to find a way to move forward in the midst of unspeakable sadness, frustration, yes even some anger, but yet throughout it all there was an understanding and confidence that what my son was no longer suffering and it was that understanding, and only that understanding, which allowed me to move forward.

Sometime in April, when the temps finally hit the high 30's and low 40's I decided to go out to the garage and look around and see if maybe ... just maybe ... I could get the motivation to work on the car ... something I don't know how to do.

So I began, ever so slowly ... and that time alone in the garage ... getting frustrated and going through things VERY SLOWLY ... was like a therapy to me. I was going to see this project through ... and then my oldest son could keep the car after I'm gone ... and make memories with my granddaughter ... but who knows.

Anyway, now that I got that off my chest ... (sorry if it was inappropriate) ... and had one of my daily cries ... I will start later on sharing what has been done ... and what has to yet be done (that list is much longer!)

Thanks for listening and God's peace ...

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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
  #6  
Old 06-18-2014, 10:59 AM
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Thanks for your words of encouragement about Danny ... I can't tell how much every single bit of kindness and encouragement means.

ROHRT ... the car was in the field for the last 2 years and in a barn for the previous 12-14 according to the owner's son and wife.

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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
  #7  
Old 06-18-2014, 12:21 PM
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perryka perryka is offline
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Default Ok, I'm hooked

At first it was for the totally cool car, but after reading your story, I'm as much interested in your journey with this project as anything else. Much encouragement to you, brother. Keep at it. Looking forward to following along. Looks like you've got a great project there.

Alan

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Old 06-18-2014, 05:06 PM
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That is very funny b/c I drove nearly the identical car home on a similar epic journey: one-way over 3,000 miles.

Pretty sure I have posted the story here somewhere, but it was just as happy an adventure. Complete with a TX customs stop where a big Belgian Tourine (dog) was inspecting the vehicle over my shoulder while the BMF Border Patrol officer was asking me what was "in the car" and I told him "421 tripower", which is NOT what he expected talking to 2 scruffy rednecks from VA with CA tags (that were not registered to me).

We did have a fuel filter clogged with rust after first 20 miles, resulting in being imprisoned in a massive parking lot by 2 Cal Tech cops and a starter wire fall off within 70 miles of home, but it was a good trip.

You are on your way to Big Car adventure my friend. It is far from the 'dark side' in my view, so you will NEVER hear me refer to it as such. But then, the Blessed Virgin is always affixed to my dash, so I may have a different perspective.

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  #9  
Old 06-18-2014, 06:34 PM
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Thumbs up Thumbs up and Godspeed

I have been struggling for 5 minutes as to how to start this post.

So, I will simply say that I cannot even imagine the gravity of your loss and I am sorry to learn about it. If we ever cross paths in person, I will be happy to listen to anything you want to share because I believe it is healthier to express heavy feelings than not. ...And I have experienced more than my share of loss (in my opinion) and I am a good listener.

As for your GP, that is such a sweet machine and you're going to build one of the true high-water-mark Pontiacs ever produced, in my opinion.

To that end, nobody here is gonna think less of you for asking basic questions.

Best of luck to you as you begin this journey, and may it be both fulfilling and healing.

  #10  
Old 06-18-2014, 10:09 PM
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May God bless you my friend for sharing your story so far. So sorry for your loss. I almost lost my son when he was 12 as I saw him lying in a coma in a hospital bed for 7 days.

I'll be watching this thread in great anticipation to see your progress on this GP. It looks like a great car! I've owned several 'big' Ponchos and wish I had one now.

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  #11  
Old 06-19-2014, 02:40 AM
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About a month or so ago I walked into the garage to see if I wanted to start the project and slowly but surely I began to start cranking the wrench and taking things apart ... I wanted to see what I really had.

I had previously decided I wanted 8 lug wheels and I knew I needed at least a front windshield and rear tail panel (the original was dented badly) so I found a parts car in Illinois for $1,100 that had all 3 in excellent condition as well as a rebuilt turbo 400, a rear seat (black with cloth inserts ... sort of rare I believe for GP's), fenders and quarters (could be used for patches ... the fenders are actually not bad at all), an excellent trunk lid, excellent hood, a/c box, excellent fender wells, lots of moldings (including extras), 4 doors with excellent glass (2 on the car and 2 extra), excellent rear glass, buckets brackets in the floor, a full dash including the rally gauge cluster!, a power antenna with a broken mast, door panels and rear panels (not great but could be used for cores), a/c dash pad (only good for a core), gas tank, good floors, and excellent boxed frame ... not bad for $1,100 ...

So I start removing stuff from the GP to see what I got ... and there are surprises both good and bad (not really too bad) ...

When I put the key in we cranked the 455 engine that was in it and it just spun freely but since it had been 14 years since it ran and there was no gas hooked up or water I just had it shut down. That complete engine is for sale btw ... or trades!

The floors were sprayed when new with some protective layer ... and it looks like brand new under that stuff ... I will have it all removed. We decided to take the body of the frame at this point but not 100% sure. Typical rust in lower fender behind wheels and lower rear quarters behind the wheels. Other than that ... real solid. The amount of mud in the car is amazing ... he must have driven it all over his farm! Ugh ... lol

So as of now the 455 is out of the car. The 421 tripower is almost totally done. Tranny is out of car but I have to find someone to look at it. The rear seats were mint but the fronts have to be recovered. The console looks like mint but it's not out of the car yet. The door panels are mint except they need new carpet on the bottoms. The steering wheel is in excellent condition. The dash is badly cracked but I found 2 a/c dash pads with MINOR damage and I plan on restoring them myself. The owner added tow bar is out of the car. The gas tank is out. The moldings are almost all off (without breaking any of them!) except the door moldings ...

Question: It looks like the door panels have to come off the take those moldings off ... is that correct?

Fender skirts removed (need the molding for the passenger side) Rear tail panel removed ... I practiced taking off the moldings ... it was much easier than I had anticipated. I'll removed the moldings from the 2 excellent ones that I have now.

Front and rear bumpers removed. I have a rechromed rear bumper waiting for my next trip to NJ ... will still have to have the front bumper rechromed and a bad dent taken out (anyone want to sell a rechromed or mint one?)

Next week: Radiator getting redone. Gas tank getting redone. Sender being rebuilt. Hopefully finish the engine ... just have to hand the accessories ... having an issue with the balancer sleeve going in too far and I know it's the right one. I have to check whether the timing chain/gears that were used in the rebuild are correct since I was told (thanks Jeff from Hillman Restorations ... he is one heck of a gentleman and a great guy to speak with) ... he explained that the sleeve "stops" at the lower chain gear. I'll find out today or tomorrow what's up with that.

I still am undecided whether to take it off the frame. I have the opportunity ... locally ... to purchase an almost redone body from the firewall to the tail panel ... almost 90% done ... he's asking $2,000 (the rest of the project burned and melted!) and that includes a rally dash and am/fm radio! I'm still chewing on that option vs. repairing my body.

I'll post some more pics and take some more pics tomorrow as well.
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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
  #12  
Old 06-19-2014, 02:44 AM
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some more ... the red car is the parts car.

The done engine is the 421 ... looks great ... can't wait to set it up under cover in the garage so I can stare at it waiting to put it in the car someday ...

I'll take some more detailed pics of the car with the trouble spots as well as the great stuff ... tomorrow

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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
  #13  
Old 06-19-2014, 07:10 AM
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Very sorry for your loss. I will be watching this thread closely.

  #14  
Old 06-19-2014, 07:20 AM
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Advice on the rebuilt engine - if it is not too late - I would not button the top end up completely. You will need to take valley pan off and apply assembly lube/cam lube to the lobes on the cam again AT LEAST just prior to cranking engine up for first time. Recommend drizzling it on there and the rotating assembly and hand turning crank multiple times prior to firing up. If it sits for more than a day or two the stuff will run down and off the parts it is desperately needed on to prevent wiping a lobe.

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Old 06-19-2014, 11:56 AM
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Thanks Deadhead ... I'll talk to him today or tomorrow with that info ...

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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
  #16  
Old 06-22-2014, 05:12 PM
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Update:

Been continuing to take stuff off the car. The sandblaster is ready and waiting for me! I'm going slow ... it takes me 3 hours to do what some of you can do in 15-20 minutes ... but that's OK ... I'm having fun trying to figure out how to take things off and apart without cutting, slamming, or denting anything as it's removed.

I was going to take a trip to the radiator man to make sure that's up to snuff but I decided to wait till this week. Now that the radiator, fuel tank, and condenser are all out I will take them to him tomorrow after traffic court (that 2010 Challenger continues to get me in trouble! lol) I will taking the 40 minute trip. I will also be bringing in the tranny to get looked at and have any issues dealt with this week. I'm hoping the company I go to will be proficient with muncies ... last will be packing up my am/fm radio to send out to get totally restored (I purchase a brand new (nos) am/fm slider and plate for it so it's going to look good as well as sound good!)

As for the body work a friend of mine who attends my church has volunteered to do the body work for me. Need lower rear front fenders patched and lowever rear qtrs. patched. That's it and it'll all be under the moldings when done. He said he'll make it look like it was never done. He is a great guy and very meticulous. That'll probably happen sometime in July?

Took more stuff off and out of the engine compartment. It's almost 100% stripped ... a couple of hard to get to bolts for the a/c box ... I'm trying to keep the hood hinges on the car because the hood shut better than a new car ... but may have to remove that one. I want the fit and finish at the end to be just right.

The engine is done ... hanging pulleys and accessories ... I didn't have the water pump pulley but is coming my way through Jeff Hillman from Hillman Restorations ... gotta tell you guys ... he is a gentleman and great guy. Knows his stuff for this car to be sure.

Purchasing a hand held sandblaster for small parts and brackets and screws, bolts, etc etc. All big parts I'll just have my sandblaster do ... he is VERY reasonable and talented.

I used to own (for 6 months before selling) an asbestos removal company and I remember that if we took the right amount time and care in building containment chambers then the job went quick on the takedown. This is similar ... if the proper time is spent making the right decisions up front ... I believe the overall project will move faster AND be done with more excellence. At least that's what I'm hoping for!

I'll post some pics later and tomorrow.

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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
  #17  
Old 06-22-2014, 05:31 PM
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some pics ...
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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:39 PM
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one more ... having trouble uploading before
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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:20 PM
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I could use some help with the door moldings. Do the door panels have to come out to take the outside door moldings off? Are there nuts on the inside of the door that I have to get to in order to remove the molding/trim?

Thanks for your help ...

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1970 GTO Convertible 455 Ram Air M-21, Atoll/Blue/Black, Hood Tach, 3:31 12-Bolt Posi, A/C, Console

1966 Grand Prix 421 Tripower 4spd, Marina Turquoise/Turquoise, a/c, console, posi, reverb. pa, pb, ps, remote mirror, mats

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic, 6spd Hemi, Detonator Yellow, black stripe, black leather
  #20  
Old 06-23-2014, 02:42 AM
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Default Front fender rust

The rust on the front fenders is typical. I think you will have to go a long way and pay PLENTY of money to find fenders which are rust free in that area.

So, consider this. My own fenders on my '65 Parisienne (very similar fender) were bad down low. My body man got two other fenders, both with similar rust and selected the best two to use on the car.

He then cut the bottom off the "good" fender and used the section above the swage line from the bad fender. You will find the shape is virtually identical. So he reversed (turned upside down) the section and folded a new lip along the bottom.

Bit hard to explain all that but I think if you look at your own fender, and look at the curved section above the swage line, you will see the shape is the same.

Worth thinking about

Ian

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