[AdamIsAdam]

I'm considering removing my Taurus electric fan and possibly even my aluminum radiator of unknown origin. The radiator (see pics) measures about 26x18.5 x 2.25 with a core surface area of 21x18. It works, as does the fan, but I'm battling slightly high temps at steady 3,000 RPM highway driving. At idle are my temps are around 185* all day. Highway driving and it creeps up to 200+. I've heard that an OEM type 7 blade fan and clutch setup will pull more air than electric fans.

My car is far from stock, but I do like a partially stock appearing look if possible, but not a requirement. Performance is priority above all else. I have stock painted engine, but aluminum intake and an open element atop my Qjet. I have my MSD box completely hidden from view, and so on. I'll show pics of my current setup so you can get the idea of the engine bay.

That being said, I'd love to get input on what has worked for others. I was flipping pages in Ames this morning and started considering using a stock appearing setup. But they only sell the 7 blade fan in 18" and I thought 19" is better. What about pulley sizes? I think I have the smaller size factory opening for radiator (non-AC LeMans originally).

Anyway, please make suggestions for it all. Fan, Clutch, shroud, shims/setup of fan position, and radiator. I'm all ears!

Thanks!

[David Jones]

I bought my 19.5" 7 blade factory fan off of eBay years (2003) ago. A quick look shows a number of them there. My setup isn't to far from stock but the 19.5" fan/clutch, factory type shroud and stock 4 core radiator have always kept whatever I had under the hood cool.

[John62]

Tell us more about your motor, set up, cam or HP, timing ect. One big decision you need to make first is stock in 64 had both hoses on the right side, you can make that work or you can go with the upper hose on the left side, you will get more even flow thru the radiator this way. Pull off your water pump and make sure you have a cast impeller , good divider plates and then clearance them. Two good choices on radiator, US Radiator 4 row high efficiency or a Griffin aluminum with 2 rows of 1.25 cores. Look at electric fans from amps and not cfm. Spal has a website that shows CFM and amps. You want the most air flow at about 0.4 static. That is about what your restriction across your radiator will be. No name fans will show the same cfm as good fans but show less amps because they test at 0.0 static, but the same two fans will be very different at 0.4 static, the restriction thru a radiator. Look at fan specs at this website.
http://www.a1electric.com/spal/faninfo.htm

[ponyakr]

I've read that a 2-row alum rad, with at least 1" wide tubes, cools better than a 4-row with narrow tubes. So, if you can afford a 2-row with 1.25" wide tubes, that should be even better.

Some say that a double pass rad will increase cooling. These have the connections on the same side.

I've also read that you need at least 5000cfm to properly cool a Pontiac engine. Very few electric fans will pull this much air. It is said that the Lincoln Mark viii (8) fan will pull near 5000cfm, on high speed. There are always some of these for sale on Ebay. But, if you use an electric fan, DON'T mount it with the plastic straps that go thru the rad. These will eventually rub a hole in a tube. I learned this the hard way. Electric fans that will pull a lot of air, also require a lot of amps. So, your electrical system must be set up correctly, in order to safely operate a high volume fan system.

I've read that the Flex-a-Lite 1818 flex fan does a good job of cooling, but makes a lot of noise, which some can't live with. I reckin that's sorta like with the ticking of Rhoads lifters, which many don't like.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Flex-A-Lite/40...BqIRoCKVPw_wcB

The Hayden Severe Duty clutch is said to be one of the best, which will turn the fan at a higher % of the water pump rpm speed, than most stock type clutches.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191599023994?rmvSB=true

Most say the fan pulls more air if it is no more than half in and half out of the shroud. I've read that some have found their fan to cool slightly better, with less than 50% of the blades inside the shroud.

But, I've also read that the clutch needs to be fairly close to the rad, in order for the heat element coil, to sense the correct amount of heat for proper clutch engagement. When I read this, I though about some of the '69-'77 GP's which had really deep shrouds. Don't seem like the clutch is close enuff to the rad to function correctly. But, I've never heard of any particular heating problems caused by this.

I am also interested in what others have found, regarding fan placement.

This seems to be a subject that is similar to cam choice. What works for one, is not necessarily what works for the next guy.

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by John62

Tell us more about your motor, set up, cam or HP, timing ect. One big decision you need to make first is stock in 64 had both hoses on the right side, you can make that work or you can go with the upper hose on the left side, you will get more even flow thru the radiator this way. Pull off your water pump and make sure you have a cast impeller , good divider plates and then clearance them. Two good choices on radiator, US Radiator 4 row high efficiency or a Griffin aluminum with 2 rows of 1.25 cores. Look at electric fans from amps and not cfm. Spal has a website that shows CFM and amps. You want the most air flow at about 0.4 static. That is about what your restriction across your radiator will be. No name fans will show the same cfm as good fans but show less amps because they test at 0.0 static, but the same two fans will be very different at 0.4 static, the restriction thru a radiator. Look at fan specs at this website.
http://www.a1electric.com/spal/faninfo.htm

Engine is a 469 Butler stroker kit, iron #46 heads flowing 255 CFM. Cam is XE274. Not sure what timing it's installed at as it came to me this way. I'm running 16* initial and 36* total plus 10* vacuum (MVA seems best on my engine).

My current radiator hoses as you can see are: upper=driver side, lower = passenger side. Fill cap on passenger side. No petcock, which is annoying.

I'm running Evan's Waterless coolant, which I intend to keep.

My thought is to get away from my current electric setup to a mechanical.

How can I tell what radiator I have now? It seems fine except that I want more cooling and some suggest the fan change would do that. At idle, I'm measuring with a heat gun 190* at the inlet hose and 160* on the outlet hose, with the electric fan on of course. Is 30* a good drop? Remember, my problems are more with driving (especially highway) than with idling.

[kate`s67gto]

Reading your transmission M21. This will hurt your wallet but help lower those rpm at hiway speed try a 5 or 6 speed overdrive transmission. Thus reducing hiway temps. Don't know how the 3.42 rear gearing will like the overdrive. Might have to go to 3.55 or 3.73 that a lot of people go to 3.73 gears. Or go to 3.08 or 3.23 gears and stay with the M21. That would help also lower your rpm at hiway speed. A mechanical fan in this case seems like a waste. The air entering the radiator at hiway speed should be sufficient to cool. Lower your rpm lower your temps at hiway speed.

[AdamIsAdam]

Can't go any lower numerically in the rear with M21. Even my 3.42 is not really good with my 3.42 because of the low (again, numberically) first gear in the M21. I should really have an M20 with these gears.

I did a test on the highway when it was running at about 200* at steady 3,000 RPM, I turned the electric fan off and the temps went up to about 210+. I turned it back on and the temps came back down a few degrees. That either tells me the fan is pulling more CFM than no fan, and/or that my electric fan shroud is blocking airflow, which sort of doesn't tell me much about the electric v. manual fan.

[JSPONT]

Not all aluminum radiators are created equal. Had a Northern car always ran 10-20 degrees more than I liked, I hate to see anything over 195 but that's me. I have a be cool radiator, since I have a stick, I did not need the tranny cooler ports. $330 from Summit to my door, around there , that's not exact. In our summer heat on the hiway 2500 rpm 180 degrees. 185 in traffic. That heat did not seem to change the temp of the car.
I have an electric fan that covers the whole radiator, Its out of a Hyundai.
After all else is checked, (pump clearance, thermostat,timing, a/f ratio) check the radiator. Have you ever had a head gasket failure with that radiator??

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Can't go any lower numerically in the rear with M21. Even my 3.42 is not really good with my 3.42 because of the low (again, numberically) first gear in the M21. I should really have an M20 with these gears.

I did a test on the highway when it was running at about 200* at steady 3,000 RPM, I turned the electric fan off and the temps went up to about 210+. I turned it back on and the temps came back down a few degrees. That either tells me the fan is pulling more CFM than no fan, and/or that my electric fan shroud is blocking airflow, which sort of doesn't tell me much about the electric v. manual fan.

Zackly!

[JSPONT]

Here is a photo of my fan, blocks the whole radiator.

[Don 79 TA]

i think you've been told this before, but man.... to me... that's a tiny cam for a large motor, and possibly generating more heat
also depending how you drive and it hooks, i don't suspect a m20/21 will live long behind a torque monster like you have

as for cooling hard to beat a good quality aluminum radiator (as mentioned)
i've always used e-fans (and on various projects) and never had issues
just make sure they are correctly wired in, and the alt has enough power too
i use the balanced sleeve stats as well with great results, although the quality of them seems to be slipping from what i hear
i am also using the meziere electric water pump and that thing is simply awesome, actually keeps the motor to cool at times, and yes i know overkill for most street people but mine is a toy car
i use a be cool rad now, and a 12 and 14" fan on the rad
i've personally never had issues with these types of fans being mounted between the cores, but i do use the higher quality mounting tabs/cushions
i started doing this in the early 90's when people said there is no way it would work, maybe i have just been lucky
i also have a 5spd, but most of the time i don't use 5th unless out on the highway
i've never had issues with my setup in the high heat of the day, or extended trips
also one thing, i don't have a high mega hp over bored motor either, that would certainly change things, mine is about 500hp

[AdamIsAdam]

yes, I know, I know. I've got a tiny cam. Give a guy a break; I'm starting to develop cam-envy!

I'm just not sure it's worth the time/effort to swap cams for a car that actually runs really well and strong for the most part. Then again maybe before I shell out money for a new radiator, fan, clutch and shroud, I should consider the cam.

Very confused.

[Chicagogoat]

Adam, if you're considering swapping cams this Lunati cam I would highly recommend. I have it in my 463 with KRE D's the rest of my combo is very similar to Don 79's setup with the electric cooling and March serp setup. I gotta say the cam is not so rough at all idling with Rhoads and is very responsive more so than an XE284 I used to run. So in your case Adam it should be better for your combo. What's your CR?

https://www.lunatipower.com/Product....d=1778&gid=287

[AdamIsAdam]

Thanks. Yes, I've had some conversations with a few folks including specific recommendations from Cliff about what cams and lifters to run if I were to swap cams, but actually he made those before I was able to confirm my CR is 10:1, so he may need to revisit that if/when I decide to do a cam swap. I'd start a new thread on that if/when I do it. But I'll keep this cam in mind too. Thanks!

Honestly, if the car was running cooler right now, I'd leave well enough alone, which was Richie's advice too. It runs plenty strong for my use. And as mentioned here and before, my M21, despite being built up to be beefy, may not live too long behind much track abuse.

I do want to run it at least once at the track. I wanted to do it this year but that's not happening as I still have yet to install my 1/2" fuel setup tank to carb which I bought over the winter!

[Chicagogoat]

I think for budget concerns I would just buy a larger capacity rad and keep the rest the same. You already have a decent fan and it's ok if it only covers at least 75% of the core surface because at higher speeds you'll get more airflow through the core. That's the easy setup I have and never had a hot running engine in any condition. The max effort approach that seems to work I've seen is a fully shrouded electric fan setup with trap doors that flap open from the positive pressure inside the shroud during high speeds.

[JSPONT]

Adam my timing is locked at 25 degrees, running a little rich right now and still sit at 180 all day long. So I think a radiator might be the next step. By the way I did wind up putting the flow cooler on my car!

[AdamIsAdam]

Did that flowkooler do anything?

I'm inclined to start off by changing to a stock 19" 7 blade setup first.

[JSPONT]

I changed to many things to tell, I did the flowcooler, radiator and that fan. Car runs cool no matter what now. Even with locked timing

[Squidward]

I had the Taurus fan in my 67 FB. It would cool beautifully at idle with fan running on high. At cruise it was a slow creeping fail. In cool winter weather here in AZ (50's-70's) it would be adequate.

After wondering why my friend Mike could run his mid 11 second 455 FB during the hottest part of the summer, I borrowed from his setup. I went to a stock shroud, 19" GM 7 blade fan, Hayden 2797(?) HD clutch, and Champion 4 core radiator. All of this went in place of the Summit 2 core aluminum rad and Taurus fan.

Drove to the track last night in 90 degree weather on the highway (turning 3k rpm), ran three 1/4 mile passes, drove home. Never saw more than 187. No Tstat.

Running distilled water with water wetter and some yellow/green antifreeze.

Before the above fluid combo I had to run some vinegar through the cooling system to clean things out. It seemed to help cooling, and cleaned up cooling system munge (that rust colored smooth paste that seems to accumulate).

I am running the 69 FB wp pulleys for A/C. Looks similar to your size wp pulley. Stock short 11 bolt pump with cast iron vanes. My crank pulley might be a little larger, tho. I don't have a measurement.

Timing was at 16 initial, 18-20 mech by 3000, 15 vac on the manifold. I bumped it to 18 init at the track, and drive it home that way.

[AdamIsAdam]

Squid,
Thanks for the detailed reply, but you left out the most important detail: WHAT ET DID YOU RUN?

Seriously, I may make this a winter project and convert over to a mechanical fan. Debating just going all out and putting a new radiator in or doing this I stages.

My water pump pulley is about 6". I think my crank pulley is 8" but I have to check my notes later.