[GP67]

http://www.bergerweb.net/PasslockFix/index.shtml

I will be back. Here is a bypass.

[GP67]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

If you are looking for the fuel pump relay, its in the fuse/relay box under the hood. Easy to get to, and bypass.

Question: I know where the relay is under the hood
My question is can it still be bypassef if the Passlock is locked in shutdown?

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by GP67

Question: I know where the relay is under the hood
My question is can it still be bypassef if the Passlock is locked in shutdown?

OK. A earlier post you stated you could not find it. Yes, Just jump it. You can have all the fuel pressure you want, but the PCM isnt going to ground the injectors. You stated that you already put resistors in to fool the Passlock, and it didn't work. Until the passlock system works, the car isnt going to run. ever. If it was easy to do, it would already be running. Get a code reader and get the trouble code, that will tell you what information PCM/BCM is missing to allow the engine to run.

[GP67]

Ok. What I meant was I couldn't find the PASSLOCK relay. I already replaced the fuel pump relay in the underhood box.
If the PCM doesn't ground the injectors can that cause a problem?
Can you explain to me EXACTLY how to bypass that relay for the pump?
I take it it involves a jumper of some sort?
I can do it if someone tells me where to make the conections, I'm good like that.
One other thing. Did you see the link to bypass the Passlock sytem I've posted? It can be done.
However, I believe if the ignition internals don't line up perfectly to signal the BCM to start the car, then it won't start regardless of anything done after the ignition. Would you agree?

[TedRamAirII]

There is no "Passlock Relay" So you can't "jump it" Yes you can jump the fuel pump relay. When you turn the key on, the fuel pump should run for 2 seconds, You should be able to hear it. That tells you the relay is good, the wiring is good, and that the pump works. The fuel pump relay will have a little diagram on the side and you can figure out which wires to jump it. The PCM grounds the fuel injectors, then they open, then they inject fuel, in so many words. The PCM isnt going to let the engine run until the BCM is happy that all the Passlock information is good. That starts with the Passlock sensor on the ignition key cylinder. If you follow the link you provided, YES it should run......If the passlock sensor is your problem, but we really don't know what your problem is, because we don't have a trouble code to determine what exactly the BCM info is missing. We could guess all day. So buy yourself a code reader and let figure out what codes you have, so we can get it running.You will need a "P" (powertrain) code and/or "B" (body) code. I would like to know what the voltage is at the YELLOW wire at the Passlock sensor when you turn the key on.

[GP67]

Ok. This is the fuel pump relay and underhood fuse box. Where do I place my jumper wire? Pleade be specific. If I am facing the fuse box with the 15 amp to the right of where the relay installs, which two holes do I place the jumper in?

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by GP67

Ok. This is the fuel pump relay and underhood fuse box. Where do I place my jumper wire? Pleade be specific. If I am facing the fuse box with the 15 amp to the right of where the relay installs, which two holes do I place the jumper in?

Look at the bottom of the relay, 30 and 87 are the two you jump to send power straight to the fuel pump.

85 and 86 are ignition switch power and computer ground that energize/trip the relay.

[GP67]

Ok... So 30 and 87 are diagonal from one another.
That would be top right to bottom left on the fuse holes in the box correct?
This probably sounds like a stupid question but I'm no electrical whiz and don't want to f something up further.
I'm just trying to learn.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by GP67

Ok... So 30 and 87 are diagonal from one another.
That would be top right to bottom left on the fuse holes in the box correct?
This probably sounds like a stupid question but I'm no electrical whiz and don't want to f something up further.
I'm just trying to learn.

Can't tell for sure with the pictures you've posted.

Just mark the outside corners of the relay, so when you put it in place, you'll be able to tell what goes where.

[GP67]

Tried with the jumper 87 to 30 ..
Just turns over, no start.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by GP67

Tried with the jumper 87 to 30 ..
Just turns over, no start.

Upper left and lower right holes. Connect 30 and 87, correct. Make sure that 2 of the holes have power, with key on, if not a fuse may be blown. That should get the pump running by itself. You should be able to "feel" the relay click on when someone turns the key on. Do you hear the fuel pump come on? you should, or check the schrader valve for fuel? If you hear the pump run and have pressure that's OK, but its still not going to run unless the PCM grounds the injectors.

[GP67]

So I put my finger on the relay while someone turned the key anf felt it click. Also the injectors were calling for fuel but of course there is none.
Climbed under the car and had someone turn key off and on several times to see if I could hear the pump go through the priming process. Heard absolutely nothing now.
I have decided to drop the tank and install a new pump myself. The mechanic was supposed to be at the shop at 10 this morning but didn't show up until after 1 ...
So his loss my gain.
Anything special I should know before I start?
And .. Thanks to those who've offered advice and helped up to this point.

[TedRamAirII]

Be sure that relay holes 87 and 30, that one of them has power. Should be a fuse to the pump. Fuse #48, 15 amp powers the pump. The relay clicking shows the relay is switching, but make sure its switching power to the pump. Make sure the GRAY wire (at the pump)has power when jumping the relay. If it does, then the fuel pump is bad, as long as its getting ground (black).

[Schurkey]

1. Did I miss this? WHAT VEHICLE is this?

2. I don't hear the fuel pumps on my vehicles. Be sure it's a pump problem, and not a hearing problem.

3. Both of my Luminas (92 and 93) have a pig-tail near the battery that is intended to "jump" the fuel pump electronics. Touching the pigtail to a power source turns on the fuel pump.

4. Both of my Luminas have undersized wiring courtesy of GM's irrational cost-cutting. GM used 16-gauge wire when industry-standard voltage drop vs. wire size vs. wire length call for 12-gauge. There's more than a volt lost on the + side, and about a volt lost on the ground side. The fuel pump runs on about two and a half volts under system voltage. Hateful.

I don't think you've done enough diagnostic work to be worth dropping the tank...yet.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

1. Did I miss this? WHAT VEHICLE is this?

2004 Pontiac Grand Am SE. I ASSUME its a 2.2 4 cylinder.

2. I don't hear the fuel pumps on my vehicles. Be sure it's a pump problem, and not a hearing problem.

If you listen close, you should hear it hum.

3. Both of my Luminas (92 and 93) have a pig-tail near the battery that is intended to "jump" the fuel pump electronics. Touching the pigtail to a power source turns on the fuel pump.

No pigtail to jumper on this model.

4. Both of my Luminas have undersized wiring courtesy of GM's irrational cost-cutting. GM used 16-gauge wire when industry-standard voltage drop vs. wire size vs. wire length call for 12-gauge. There's more than a volt lost on the + side, and about a volt lost on the ground side. The fuel pump runs on about two and a half volts under system voltage. Hateful.

I concur. I know on a lot of the GM trucks, they had issues at the Fuel Pump connector that had undersized pins. They would get hot and melt.

I don't think you've done enough diagnostic work to be worth dropping the tank...yet.

I agree. The relay has 2 things going on. If it clicks, that means the "switch is being turned on" but does not mean current is flowing (bad contacts) or no voltage, so it needs to be verified that current is actually getting to the pump (gray wire) The fuse needs to be verified good and the pins 87 and 30 needs to be verified as getting power and passing it along to the pump. Sometimes if you know the pump is getting power, a rap on the tank from a mallet or other object may get the pump running (brushes worn out) for a short time. If you rap it and it runs, it needs a pump.
Not sure how the Passlock System got involved.

[GP67]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Be sure that relay holes 87 and 30, that one of them has power. Should be a fuse to the pump. Fuse #48, 15 amp powers the pump).

Fuse #48 .. 15 amp is good. Fuel pump/ injectors.
How do I check that one of either 87 or 30 has power? Multimeter? What voltage am I looking for? Key on or off?
Do I probe the hole with the red lead and black lead to the body for ground?
I'm an electrical illiterate (as you can probably tell by now)

2004 Pontiac Grand am se 2.2L

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by GP67

Fuse #48 .. 15 amp is good. Fuel pump/ injectors.
How do I check that one of either 87 or 30 has power? Multimeter? What voltage am I looking for? Key on or off?
Do I probe the hole with the red lead and black lead to the body for ground?
I'm an electrical illiterate (as you can probably tell by now)

2004 Pontiac Grand am se 2.2L

If Fuse 48 is good. The get your meter. Ignition key ON. Black wire to ground, Now take red wire from meter and check the 87 pin, 12 Volt Power? good, No power? now check 30 Power? Yes. One of the 2 should have power, now the one that does not have power, you want to GIVE it power, so get a paper clip, wire, whatever and connect the 87 hole to the 30 hole. When you do that, you are giving the Fuel Pump direct power. Now go back and listen if you hear it. Hear it humming? if not, get something and give the bottom of the tank a few whacks with a mallet, block of wood, whatever, Now can you hear it? If you can, the pump is bad, but runs at this moment. Try to start the car, it SHOULD run, if the Passlock is allowing it to run. If you still cant hear the pump run, the pump is bad. If the Theft light is flashing, its not going to start, even if you do have fuel pressure.

[GP67]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Upper left and lower right holes. Connect 30 and 87, correct.

UPPER RIGHT AND LOWER LEFT are pins 87 and 30 aren't they?

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by GP67

UPPER RIGHT AND LOWER LEFT are pins 87 and 30 aren't they?

Looking at your pick, upper LEFT and lower RIGHT. Look at the relay, the pins are marked, hold the relay like you are going to put it in, and read what pins are going in what hole. Check pin/hole with you meter, if one has power, give power to the other one.

[GP67]

I checked #87 with the key on, red probe in slot, black to where engine ground strap connects, got 11.6 for a reading on the meter.
Is it ok to connect jumper cables while finishing out the rest of the process?
I had to clean battery connections. Battery at 11.8 but seems to be getting weak from cranking it.

As for the security system. I have bypassed it. The security light comes on and goes off as should during the idiot lights on dash sequence when the key is turned.
The reason the Passlock became involved is after several attempts to start the car the security light began to blink. I went through the rest process but it was a no go and the security light stayed on solid. I disconnected the battery and screwed around with the BCM connections. Tried to start it again and got the light to blink again. So then I cut the yellow wire at the ignition, connected a 2200 resistor to the side going to the BCM. Then I stripped a section of the black wire and connected the other contact from the resistor to the stripped black wire. Since then the security light illuminates and goes out as should when turning the key to the on position.

Isn't it ironic. My daughters friend stopped by the house, she drives a monte carlo, sais she had a keyless remote installed because the security light kept coming on. Says she hasn't had the problem since.