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#21
09-26-2017, 02:08 PM
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Jeff here is the reply I got from Hurst regarding that unit which they call the black hat unit..............
and this was for a 3 speed, not a four........and they won't just sell the hat and bracket. Just passing along the evidence of my search. HURST REPLY: I have exactly ONE complete kit left , NEW shifter (plenty available) with linkage-New Old Stock Hurst Mastershift 3 Speed 1966-1974 Chevelle Shifter + Install Kit w Black Hat Our Products: Hurst Late Model Manual Shifters, 3 Speed and Race Shifters > Hurst 3 Speed Manual Shifters & Kits SKU: 3667271-3670010-HT Hurst 3 Speed MasterShift Shifter Kit 1966-1974 Chevelle. Hurst Hat with this Shifter Bundle. Kit includes: 3667271 Master Shift 3 Speed Shifter 3670010 Install Kit FITS Saginaw Type 343 Factory Manual 3 Speed Trans. 1966-1974 Chevelle WITHOUT ConsoleMore Details Price: $376.67
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A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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#22
09-26-2017, 02:35 PM
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Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms. |
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#23
09-26-2017, 04:22 PM
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As I have found out this odd setup on the bottom of the tail-housing was used in 1981 1982 Camaros..........and maybe they used the mold you speak of and just added the metal at the base for the torque arm. Thanks for the post........
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A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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#24
10-26-2017, 11:30 PM
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Well, I can update this thread telling you the tail housing swap worked...........and a little secret..........when you go to put the tailhousing back on,
and I referenced duckbill pliars in a former post, well.......the secret is, and don't tell anyone.........but I used a pinch style clothes pin to open the spring c clip up. I feel a McGiver moment.......don't you? Yes a wooden clothes pin and as the clip got to the point where it needed to be spread I pinched the clothes pin and as a Minion cartoon character would say: TUH-DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The housing slipped over the outer bearing and snapped in to the groove on the bearing. Duckbill...schmuckbill...............necessity is the mother of invention..............right? Come on give me a whoop whoop.............         :whoo :
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A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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#25
11-01-2017, 12:31 PM
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I'm adding another post to this thread letting you know all did not end up well in my swap. As I swapped the tail-housings, the need to pull the tail-housing back maybe 1/4 to 1/2 an inch to allow access to the C clip to release the tail-housing was accomplished. Not without difficulty. But still completed
When you pull the housing back to gain that 1/4-1/2 inch, the internal shaft with all the gears and synchros slid back as well. Nothing seemed odd about that. There are 14 needle bearings in the nose of this shaft aligned around the shaft. You can see where this is headed maybe. ONE needle bearing fell out of alignment and went forward in to the vacated space of the snout and lodged itself there. After the tail-housing swap, I had a bit of difficulty getting gears to align with their counterparts and it was such a minuscule difference I took it as just wear and tear. There was a little voice saying this wasn't right but we can justify things in many different ways. The tail-housing now bolted on with all new gaskets and the gear cover plate also with new gaskets and such and she's all bolted up ready to go. Then, as I rotated the shaft, things did not feel right and the shaft froze and I couldn't turn it forward or back.  I couldn't shift the levers to check the gear shifts. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm I tore it apart once again, and again, and again of course ruining gaskets in the process. Everything I tried, and everything I thought to try failed. The shaft would turn with the tail-housing off and when installed it locked up again. The ONLY differences between the two tail-housings was EXTERNAL. Not internal so if you swap one to the other, and there is actually NOTHING in that tail-housing, how can it be doing this.????  I finally called a guy who rebuilds Muncies and he said to bring it over. It puzzled him and he spent hours trying to find the issue. He shined a flashlight in to the area where the needle bearings reside and he saw they were STILL in place. BUT, as he rolled the shaft he saw a small gap and there shouldn't be between the needle bearings. So apart it came and there it was, 13 needle bearings around the input shaft and 1 needle bearing stuck in the nose area of the shaft. You could see the bright scratch marks in the nose where the needle bearing had made contact with the snout and was stopping the shaft from turning. I made a quick dash to his garage with some new bearings and glad to say the transmission is back on my bench rolling smooth and shifting gears and all seems well. We both agreed the design of the C clip on the tail-housing sure didn't think it all through. This is why he stays with Muncies. Bless this old guy for helping me out and helping me avoid a complete overhaul when he said everything looks good inside the Saginaw except for a chipped reverse gear. I offered to swap him this Saginaw for a newly built Muncie he had on the bench and he graciously told me to take my Saginaw and leave.........  So, my previous post was a bit too jubilant and shall we say I celebrated BEFORE taking the ball in to the end zone. Now I can move on to a new clutch and pilot bearing and throw out bearing install and know that transmission is ready for it's install. Failure is so humbling. When it looks easy and seems easy, you may want to have a plan B, in case it's NOT as easy as it seems. 
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A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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#26
11-01-2017, 03:54 PM
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It sounds like you fixed the problem before putting it in the car and ruining the transmission, so I would call it a good catch instead of a failure.
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#27
11-01-2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
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A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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#28
11-06-2017, 02:09 PM
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Did you grease the needle bearings before you put it all together? I found out years ago to clean the everything, then load it with wheel bearing grease to hold them all in place.
Only a just-in-case if you hadn't thought of it. If you did... then it was one of those oh crap moments where the one bearing didn't want to co-operate.  I've even heard of using a small thin rubber band at the rear of the bearings to hold them in place. Once everything is together the rubber band will slip off and stay on the shaft. If it does disintegrate it "won't" hurt anything inside the transmission. Never tried it myself but it did come from a transmission guy back in the 60s that rebuilt manual transmissions.
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 Gary Get in, ShuT Up, Hang On! Member of the Baltimore Built Brotherhood MY GTO built 4th Week of March 1966 "Crusin' Is Not A Crime" Keep yer stick on the ice. |
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#29
11-06-2017, 02:25 PM
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shaft to get to the rear housing clip that caused just one of the bearings to fall in to the snout area. 13 remained where they were supposed to. That .217 of a bearing caused the binding and jamming and it didn't appear there was a bearing missing when a light was shown around the input shaft. The rubber band idea sounds almost like my pinch style clothes pin I used to open the C clip on the tail-shaft to pull it back and out and released from the main gear case. To me, the bad design is the need to pull the tail-housing and shaft rearward to get to the C clip. As soon as you pull everything rearward, then just as it did, one needle bearing aligned along the shaft fell in to the area where the snout goes and THAT is what started the whole issue. All 14 are back in their place and the trans rolls like smooth butter........not a fun lesson to learn with how many times I took the trans apart and put it back together not knowing or being able to see the one bearing hidden in the nose. Thanks for the post up.
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A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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#30
12-10-2017, 05:44 PM
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Well, little by little, the four speed project is coming along. And I still have ALL my fingers!
[IMG]  [/IMG]Makes you want to jump on the bench seat and slam some gears like Bill Jenkins or Ronnie Sox. [IMG]  [/IMG]Sorry, no gear slamming. Just a teaser............... I'm so pleased I can move the bench seat as far forward as it goes and the shifter doesn't hit the seat. This shifter lever is perfect for my application. I spent a lot of money buying levers that were not bent nor twisted to my liking. This one is gravy on my taterz.
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A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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#31
12-11-2017, 06:44 AM
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NICE!
Now go grab some gears...
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When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did, in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Last edited by Jeff Hamlin; 02-25-2024 at 11:04 AM. |
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#32
12-11-2017, 09:37 AM
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Hard cornering I see..........maybe a five point harness will be under your tree. I have the fun today of installing and making minor adjustments to the linkage arms. I mocked it up on the bench and all but I couldn't install the tranny WITH the linkage attached. So...........day by day the car is getting closer to coming off the lift and seeing how that 3.50 first gear feels. I just hope it doesn't pull the front wheels off the ground and I embarrass a Dodge Demon. 
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A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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#33
12-22-2017, 03:29 PM
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I am pleased as punch (never understood that saying) BUT I AM..........
I'm here to report my OHC is off the lift and just made it's maiden voyage around the block with the new 4 speed and clutch and all the changes I made to it while it hibernated this year. The gears all feel great. That 3.50 first gear takes the tach up fast to 4,000 and that is good enough for me. No hot rods or burnouts. Just trying all the gears up and down and reverse and clutch engagemant is so smooth. The shifter falls right in to my hand. The throws are a bit long compared to todays rail shifters but it's just more exercise for my right arm. I will test drive up the road next week but for now I just wanted to see if I had any leaks, or rattles. Was it worth it? Uhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  Too soon to tell............I'm still adding up the numbers...........I may need to claim a new dependant on my income tax named Tempest. 
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A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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#34
12-22-2017, 10:34 PM
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Nice! Congrats!
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__________________________________________ "How I learned to stop worrying and love the OHC Pontiac L6"  The Silver Buick- '77 Skylark coupe w/455, SPX, MegaSquirt 3 & TKO-600 (Drag Week 2011, 2012 & 2015!) 1969 Firebird with a turbo'd Pontiac L6 controlled by a MegaSquirt 3 and backed with a microsquirt controlled 4L60e and 4.56 gears! (Drag Week 2018!) |
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#35
12-23-2017, 08:00 AM
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It's always a good feeling when hard work and persistence payoff...
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When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did, in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
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#36
12-23-2017, 08:22 AM
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So far.no part droppage and no puddles.....and my car looks lowered now that it is on it's tires............ I'm adding some new front brake hoses as a safety measure that I bought and THEN we go cruising...........the brake hoses will be here after Christmas. Until then, I'll just enjoy the view of it
__________________
A quote from a man named Jim Elliot I like: "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose" |
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