[TedRamAirII]

With a scan tool, you want to look at RPM, Desired RPM and IAC counts. RPM and Desired RPM should be close together. IAC counts tells you how much the Idle Air Control is working to keep the idle speed that the ECM wants it to be. IAC counts very low or zero indicates the IAC is doing all it can to lower idle speed but cant go any lower. If idle is too slow, but IAC counts are high (20-30) see if anyone has played with the Throttle stop screw. If so, plug off the IAC passage and see if you can adjust it at 500 rpm for idle speed. Be sure your fuel trims are approx +/- 10%. more than 10% its running lean and the ecm is adding fuel, Less than 10% its a little rich and the ecm is taking fuel away to keep ideal fuel/air mixture. These engine had timing chain issues. HT
H ; )

[GP67]

New problem.
The car was running great after fixing the fuel pump relay problem in the under hood compartment.

I did not repair the flex pipe off the exhaust manifold and one morning I started the car and it was very loud. (I'd been living with the small exhaust leak)
At any rate, started it and it was very loud and the car was rumbling like a car with no exhaust, could keep it running with giving it fuel from the pedal, it would idle but very low and loud. I could drive it without it hesitating, drove normal. Just loud and low idle when stopped. Didn't stall out or anything like that. I figured while I had the time I'd put some new parts on it. I put a new coil pack and new ignition module on.

The problem:
The car will not start. Just cranks over but doesn't even sound like it wants to run. The fuel pump primes just fine. I took the new coil pack off and reinstalled the old one because it ran before I put the new one on. Still no start. I've even gone as far as putting the old boots on the new one and new boots on the old one but same thing, no start.

Any ideas?
2004 Pontiac Grand am se 2.2

Thanks

[Schurkey]

Got compression? Got spark AT THE SPARK PLUG GAP? Got fuel spraying from the injectors?

Spark at the plug wire is not spark across the gap.

Fuel pressure is not a proper quantity of fuel spraying from the injectors.

A scan-tool would be useful for verifying coolant temperature readings, crank sensor signal, throttle-position signal, etc.

Wild guess with no evidence: Fouled plugs. Exhaust leak drives the O2 sensor to provide false "lean" signal. Fuel system adds fuel to compensate for faulty "lean" readings. Plugs foul from excess fuel.

[GP67]

I will buy a odb2 scanner tomorrow.
I've been looking for a suitable flex pipe adaptor to install to the exhaust manifold and cut the pipe and weld it in place. This option is not available on the grand am. The flex pipe is a one piece to the catalytic converter forcing a total pipe replacement. Another way to get screwed seeing how the cat is fine but I'm forced to replace it. Stupid setup, NO reason to design it this way. Could've should've been a 2 piece design from manifold to cat. ***hole engineers.

[GP67]

Been busy. Just now picked up a scanner.
Do or die time....

[GP67]

These are the places that have red X's beside them.
Test was done with ignition on.

Cat = RED x

Evap = RED X

O2's = RED X

HRT = RED X

What am I looking at?
What is my next step?

General info: Car will not start.

[TedRamAirII]

We need a code....like P0345? PXXXX Should be a P followed by 4 numbers. . Does your scanner show RPM when cranking?

[GP67]

Putting 4 fresh plugs in it now to see if it'll start and then get those P codes.
Not 100% sure how this scanner works but from what I see on YouTube for this model Autolink 319 ODB2 scanner I should be able to read live data.
I'm hesitant because I don't want to erase any codes by accident.

[GP67]

It says no codes stored. No codes pending.
I cranked it over for live data, it did not start, RPM went as high as 147 then to 0..

I also got a backfire through the throttle body.

Open to all ideas for testing on this..

[GP67]

I'm starting to believe the timing chain is broken. The engine sounds like it has no compression. But I don't know.
When I put the scanner on live data and crank it over the rpm read 147, but if the chain is broken it should not get any reading is my understanding. Is that correct?
Also a backfire through the throttle body would mean no spark? Is that correct?
I replaced the IAC, the coil pack and ignition module too.
What am I missing here?
What can I do next?
I'm almost ready to pull the top and check the chain. I don't know.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Said you put the old coil packs back on...Did you try putting the old module back on?

Coils will fire on a lot of cars just from cycling the switch on and off. So the backfire may not have been from the computer sensing a RPM signal.

I'd be putting the known running parts back on. Double check all plug-ins/connectors. The tiny terminals in this new stuff is bad about not making good connections. Wire terminals slide back in the connectors. And it's all little bitty flimsy stuff that I've seen. May try pushing in on the wires where they go in the connectors. Just to see if one has slid or just needs a little help.

I've been away from this way too long. But for this I'd go back to basics..the known running parts. Then use the new scanner to see what's up with the slow idle.

Good luck
Clay

PS and look at connections that may have got bumped or moved when you was doing the part swapping.

[GP67]

Unfortunately I don't have the old ignition module. I returned it to autozone when they gave me a replacement. I only changed it because I was replacing the coil packs and figured all new parts was a good thing.
I'm wondering if the timing chain has snapped, would I get a rpm reading when trying to start the car?
I would think not but I really don't know.

[TedRamAirII]

I think RPM is from the Crankshaft Position Sensor, so it would not know if the timing chain is broken, but the Cam Position Sensor sure would. If it sounds like it has no compression, it probably doesnt. See if you can get an eyeball on a rocker arm while the engine is being cranked over, or just pull one plug and check compression.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Can you simply just remove the oil cap to see if a cam is rotating?

[GP67]

I'm going to have to pick up a tool to check the compression so that's it for today. I would like to know why I'm backfiring through the throttle body?
Any input there?

Another troubling thing for me is the Service Engine Soon light is on yet I don't get a code through the scanner. Shouldn't I be getting one?

[GP67]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Can you simply just remove the oil cap to see if a cam is rotating?

Is this possible? If so, I will do this right now?

[GP67]

I took off the oil cap and marked the camshaft. Turned over the engine and got no action.
Timing belt is toast correct?
If so, I'm going to pull off the valve cover and confirm it.
On the right track?

[TedRamAirII]

Very strong possibility that the valves are bent. If you have a air compressor, use a compression tester hose to pump air into a cylinder with both valves closed. You will want to pull the valve cover off to confirm both valves are closed. Maybe even see if any rockers are loose, if they are, the valves are bent. If a intake valve is bent, you will hear air coming through the intake/ throttle body, if a exhaust valve is bad, out the exhaust pipe.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

I believe it has a Timing Chain, not a belt.

Pretty sure the '04 GM 2.2L Ecotech is an interference engine .

Good reman head will likely command $700-900+ depending on your connections
chain set with gears likely another ~$100
plus all other necessary install parts/materials, gaskets ~$100
bolts ~$60
fluids and misc parts $?.
Quick guesstimate... minimum ~$1200 in materials, plus your time.
Time to evaluate, damage extent and cost vs value, based on overall condition.

Putting a tight (valve to seat seal) head on a tired short (if worn rings/bore) can often lead to major combustion blowby after reassembly.

Late to this thread, but it appears you have a lot of time and energy into this ride.

Sorry to hear the current state of affairs.

[GP67]

It is a chain, I typed belt in error. This is an interference engine which means if the chain broke then the pistons most likely did a dance with the valves and bent them.
If the chain just jumped I have to assume the piston and valves probably smashed into each other as well.
I'm going to pull the valve cover tonight and get a look.
Question:
Assume for a minute the chain did not break but did jump teeth. I imagine there will be slack, the chain tensioners are a problem with these engines so I have found out.
What will I be looking for in the event the chain did not break?