#21  
Old 01-24-2021, 02:42 AM
Aus78Formula Aus78Formula is offline
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Originally Posted by grandam1979 View Post
Lots of people call paint jobs frame offs they are not. Taking subframe out to clean it up is not a frame off.
Frame off doesn't mean every bolt elsewhere has been restored, it means the frame has come off, for attention hence the words. You're right, many are confused by this term and it needs further detail to know what it means.

  #22  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:21 AM
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Thanks everyone for all the replies. It seems like the consensus is that it's an old headliner, maybe even original. That doesn't seem too bad to me. I guess the worst thing about it is that if they left the existing headliner in place when they did the car you don't know what the metal is like behind it. It's been a while since I've been around these cars but I don't recall that being one of the areas more prone to rust, maybe around the rear window but that's usually down at the lower area, is that right??. So if it's just an old headliner that's not a deal breaker.

That's the thing about these cars though, you just don't know much about them. I'm sure some of these restorations are well documented but not the ones I've looked at. This is the third car that I've really considered and they all claim to be "frame off" restorations but none of them had any documentation and none of the restorations were done by the current owner. One even said in the ad that they had photos, receipts, etc and when I talked to the guy they didn't have any documentation at all. I'll call them George Michael restorations, you just gotta have faith. Which is not good because I generally don't have much of that.

  #23  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jhein View Post
Thanks everyone for all the replies. It seems like the consensus is that it's an old headliner, maybe even original. That doesn't seem too bad to me. I guess the worst thing about it is that if they left the existing headliner in place when they did the car you don't know what the metal is like behind it. It's been a while since I've been around these cars but I don't recall that being one of the areas more prone to rust, maybe around the rear window but that's usually down at the lower area, is that right??. So if it's just an old headliner that's not a deal breaker.
Since the underside picture you posted shows that whoever restored the car re-created the red oxide e-coat primer appearance, I'll assume this is a Norwood-built car. Therefore when built it got a full body e-coat dip primer coating (Van Nuys cars did not in 1970)... including the underside of the roof. And it would be very unusual to find rust on the inside of the roof on a Norwood car, unless the rest of the car was way too far gone to be even worth restoring.

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  #24  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by keith k View Post
Since the underside picture you posted shows that whoever restored the car re-created the red oxide e-coat primer appearance, I'll assume this is a Norwood-built car. Therefore when built it got a full body e-coat dip primer coating (Van Nuys cars did not in 1970)... including the underside of the roof. And it would be very unusual to find rust on the inside of the roof on a Norwood car, unless the rest of the car was way too far gone to be even worth restoring.
Thanks for that. Is there a way to determine if it's a Norwood car? I have PHS documents for the car but I don't see anything about where it was built.

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Old 01-24-2021, 11:41 AM
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Thanks for that. Is there a way to determine if it's a Norwood car? I have PHS documents for the car but I don't see anything about where it was built.
The VIN will tell you.
228870Nxxxxxx is Norwood
228870Lxxxxxx is Van Nuys

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  #26  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:46 AM
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So it's a Norwood car then.

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Old 01-24-2021, 11:47 AM
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The VIN will tell you.
228870Nxxxxxx is Norwood
228870Lxxxxxx is Van Nuys
So it's definitely a Norwood car then.

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Old 01-24-2021, 12:02 PM
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Seems like a very nice restoration. There will always be issues or things left undone. It all comes down to money. If you want a concours correct restoration, you will pay for it. In this case, it will cost you more money to have the issues fixed. If the asking price is close to what you think is fair, you can point out the issues and offer a reduced price to fix them. The intake manifold looks wrong, the shifter stick is wrong, the rear sway bar bushings have slid out of place, headliner, etc. I'd love to own the car. If the price was right.....

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Old 01-24-2021, 12:27 PM
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Jhein, no problem. Like I said LOTS of Royal GTO Club guys out there that could help you.

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  #30  
Old 01-24-2021, 12:52 PM
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That is some old mold, and dirt/dust in and around the hook! A new headliner is in the T/A's future if you purchase her.
Also, I can't tell by the angle of the engine pic, but it looks like the pass. side fender has the hump for the fender brace...wrong for that year. The drivers side is correct (flat).

She looks awesome though.
Good luck : )

  #31  
Old 01-24-2021, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 4birds View Post
Seems like a very nice restoration. There will always be issues or things left undone. It all comes down to money. If you want a concours correct restoration, you will pay for it. In this case, it will cost you more money to have the issues fixed. If the asking price is close to what you think is fair, you can point out the issues and offer a reduced price to fix them. The intake manifold looks wrong, the shifter stick is wrong, the rear sway bar bushings have slid out of place, headliner, etc. I'd love to own the car. If the price was right.....
I didn't notice anything about the intake. What looks wrong?

I read that the short, straight shifter lever was correct for the RA III without the console, that may not be correct.

I did see the say bar bushings. not really worried about that.

Hopefully I can use things to my advantage on the price.

  #32  
Old 01-24-2021, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by stuta View Post
That is some old mold, and dirt/dust in and around the hook! A new headliner is in the T/A's future if you purchase her.
Also, I can't tell by the angle of the engine pic, but it looks like the pass. side fender has the hump for the fender brace...wrong for that year. The drivers side is correct (flat).
I don't think I see the hump for the brace. Maybe someone else can chime in on that.

[/QUOTE]
She looks awesome though.
Good luck : )[/QUOTE]

Thanks. hopefully it works out.

  #33  
Old 01-24-2021, 05:09 PM
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Intake looks like a 68 or 69. Has an air gap around the heat riser. Should be solid with no gap. Check the casting # and date code. Casting # should be 9799068 and have a big X on #2 runner like the one pictured. Pic 1 is a 69. Pic 2 is a 70. The shifter stick is definitely wrong. Same Hurst curved #7244 stick is correct for both console and non-console cars.
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  #34  
Old 01-24-2021, 08:08 PM
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I had my car in my heated garage and always kept the windows down a little with a cover on just to get some air in it. No problems with mold

  #35  
Old 01-24-2021, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 4birds View Post
Intake looks like a 68 or 69. Has an air gap around the heat riser. Should be solid with no gap. Check the casting # and date code. Casting # should be 9799068 and have a big X on #2 runner like the one pictured. Pic 1 is a 69. Pic 2 is a 70. The shifter stick is definitely wrong. Same Hurst curved #7244 stick is correct for both console and non-console cars.
Damn, new headliner, new fender, new intake, new shifter lever. What's next? Keep looking guys, I'm sure you can find at least a few more things it needs. Or maybe I should delete the pictures so you can't find anything else. LOL.

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Old 01-24-2021, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 4birds View Post
Seems like a very nice restoration. There will always be issues or things left undone. It all comes down to money. If you want a concours correct restoration, you will pay for it. In this case, it will cost you more money to have the issues fixed. If the asking price is close to what you think is fair, you can point out the issues and offer a reduced price to fix them. The intake manifold looks wrong, the shifter stick is wrong, the rear sway bar bushings have slid out of place, headliner, etc. I'd love to own the car. If the price was right.....

The shifter appears to be the correct straight one for a non-console car to me. Is there some detail I'm missing?

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  #37  
Old 01-25-2021, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jhein View Post
I don't think I see the hump for the brace. Maybe someone else can chime in on that.
She looks awesome though.
Good luck : )[/QUOTE]

Thanks. hopefully it works out.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any other pix showing the p/s fender? Like a photo of the engine compartment from the d/s of the ta.
That would show you the area I mentioned. Not the end of the world problem, but if it's wrong...it just gives you some negotiating power.
The front fenders on the 70-72 TA's are replaced with later fenders quite often.

  #38  
Old 01-25-2021, 04:42 AM
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I'm with formulabruce on this one, really nice looking car, but nobody replaced that headliner, way too much crud on several areas, coat hook especially. My car was restored 10 years ago, including the perfect original headliner (it was nice and clean, but very fragile). Don't count on pictures of the restoration either, pictures could be of one of many they have restored in the past. Cost me $10,000 and 2 years wasted to learn that lesson. You'll have to see it in person if you are interested in buying it. Do your homework before you go. Also there are some very good post on here hi-lighting most, if not all, of the 1970 only parts and other specific details about the 1970 model Firebird's. It would be worth your trouble to take note of all that great information.

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  #39  
Old 01-25-2021, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuta View Post
She looks awesome though.
Good luck : )
Thanks. hopefully it works out.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any other pix showing the p/s fender? Like a photo of the engine compartment from the d/s of the ta.
That would show you the area I mentioned. Not the end of the world problem, but if it's wrong...it just gives you some negotiating power.
The front fenders on the 70-72 TA's are replaced with later fenders quite often.[/QUOTE]

Here's a pic of the p/s fender from the d/s. The later fender should have a raised platform with two holes for the brace, is that right?


  #40  
Old 01-25-2021, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 1971455HO View Post
I'm with formulabruce on this one, really nice looking car, but nobody replaced that headliner, way too much crud on several areas, coat hook especially. My car was restored 10 years ago, including the perfect original headliner (it was nice and clean, but very fragile). Don't count on pictures of the restoration either, pictures could be of one of many they have restored in the past. Cost me $10,000 and 2 years wasted to learn that lesson. You'll have to see it in person if you are interested in buying it. Do your homework before you go. Also there are some very good post on here hi-lighting most, if not all, of the 1970 only parts and other specific details about the 1970 model Firebird's. It would be worth your trouble to take note of all that great information.
Thanks. I really do appreciate all the responses and info/observations about the car. I jokingly said in a earlier post that I should take down the pics so they can't be judged but obviously that's why I'm posting them. Anything folks can tell me about the car, good, bad or ugly is what I'm looking for. All the pics I'm posting were taken on the same day by an inspector that I hired so they are all the same car. I still may fly out there but I figured I should have it inspected first to see if it was even worth the trip.

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