[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Todd, I thought Ross's Redrum car was the first & mine was the second - both are Pontiac Plant 05C cars although their invoices may be later.

I wasn't even aware that Car #13 Red/Red Auto had an 05C Body - and a lower VIN than your VooDoo Car #6. It (Red) isn't invoiced until June 5th.
All last 6 digits of VIN are blanked out on my BHC copy, and whole EUN.

So i had just thought yours was the earliest prior to VooDooVert.

GTOwolf spoke of Red/Black Car #11 as being "built" on May 27 and that he had a copy of the BHC. He may have meant it was INVOICED on May 27.
So it possibly has the MEMO / ADJUSTMENT.

Chuck never shared the BHC, and sounds like he has sold the car.
He was probably scared to show it to us if it had the Memo.

You Got a BHC on that Red 4spd #11 , Boss ?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Gtowolf

Woodgrain steering wheel , my tach only goes to 5,200 as far as red line it did have a de clutching fan on it PA tag still there on Rad, anything else I can think of I'll let you know TY so much B.V.Z

No problem at all Wolf.
And thanks again for sharing your Buildsheet - A W E S O M E !

If you have the BHC for your car, would be great to companion it for the archives.
And the Body Build date from trim tag.

And would REALLY like a copy of the Red-Black 4spd #11 BHC if you could email it or post it.

[PurelyGTO68]

Does anyone know what was the first RAII GTO built? Did the factory create the BHC in the same day they were assembled? How do we know 5-20-68 was the first GTO RAII?....does PHS have that info? How many different plants were GTOs assembled at? What is the latest day we know GTO RAII cars were built? Late July? 3 cars/day if only one factory is involved....if 3 plants were building cars then one per day per plant? If 4 or more plants then some days there would be no RAII cars built. If so, then the 5-20-68 date may not apply to all factories. So many questions....

[1oldgoat]

"Were the closed scoops and temporary cleaner provided to the customer so they could reinstall when needed?
That is our understanding. But hard to say what might have actually happened with every car at every dealership. "

I have a copy of a dealer prep repair order the says install ram air scoops for my 68 Ram Air I that I can post if you think it could add to the discussion? I know it's not a II car but it is totally unrestored and complete.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by 1oldgoat

"Were the closed scoops and temporary cleaner provided to the customer so they could reinstall when needed?
That is our understanding. But hard to say what might have actually happened with every car at every dealership. "

I have a copy of a dealer prep repair order the says install ram air scoops for my 68 Ram Air I that I can post if you think it could add to the discussion? I know it's not a II car but it is totally unrestored and complete.

It would be cool to see. Did you get the "as shipped" parts returned to you as well? Can you post a pic of your fan blade? If you have your BHC...can you post the invoice date?

I am curious if the dealer prep order says to reuse the air cleaner lid or if a new lid was provided in the RA kit. I presume the surplus parts remaining after "the procedure" would be the snorkel air cleaner (possibly a lid), two closed hood scoops and the flexible hose from the heat riser shroud to the snorkel. Does that sound about right or am I missing something?

[johnta1]

I am curious if the dealer prep order says to reuse the air cleaner lid or if a new lid was provided in the RA kit.

Bulletin for RA II:



Fan:

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

Does anyone know what was the first RAII GTO built?
Nope, not defacto.

Did the factory create the BHC in the same day they were assembled?
1-3 days after completion.
That is the range for the cars where I have both a Buildsheet and BHC (or Invoice) for the same car. Regardless of Mfg Plant.

How do we know 5-20-68 was the first GTO RAII?....does PHS have that info?
In essence they do, In reality they are not going to do that dig - or at least not publicize it for us if it has been done.

Would need to start at around Invoice 690,000 ... then comb all the way through to #900,000 +/- to go ahead and grab all the Ram II cars. Lotta BHC's.
They mainly just preserve and protect the documents.

How many different plants were GTOs assembled at?
Ram1 = 6 Plants = 808 units
Ram2 = 5 Plants = 246 units
We have a breakdown per plant, but my browser isn't giving me the manage attachments option right now.

What is the latest day we know GTO RAII cars were built? Late July? 3 cars/day if only one factory is involved....if 3 plants were building cars then one per day per plant? If 4 or more plants then some days there would be no RAII cars built. If so, then the 5-20-68 date may not apply to all factories. So many questions....

We only have about 25 examples known, out of 246 cars.
Only have common shared documents on roughly half of those 25.
Still a long long way to go ...

Pretty much everything that everyone has been able to dig up has already been posted (bulletins, memos, documents ...) amongst the Firebird thread and this thread. Majority is in the Bird thread.

The chrome lid is bigger than the RA lid.
Not a good swap if its even do-able at all.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I went to the limits of my data cross-checking on some 69 Buildsheets for Fans.

RamIII Standard Fan (with "BO" 3 core Radiator) is a 53 Spacer and a 346 Blade.
We know this to be a Non-Clutch 5 Blade Fan

A/C is PH spacer with 546 Blade

RamIII HD Cooling (with "PA" 4 core) is a 53 Spacer and a 346 Blade.

RamIII HD Cooling -AND- HD Fan (with "PA" 4 core) is _H Spacer and a 134 Blade
This is a Clutched 7 Blade Fan

RamIV - no sheets from proper plants to fully relate codes correctly

For 1968 - Ram Air Engines - its looking like probably had to special order the option # 514 to get the "Fan and Clutch HD 7 Blade $5.27" .
I had never even paid attention to that option being in the list before.

If #514 was inclusive with R/A option, it would probably be called out with the same verbage.

[The Boss]

E-mailed Ross on his BHC Todd.

Don't have anything other than the burnout video of Chuck's Red Duece.

[johnta1]

Some earlier threads on RA II's

RA II Roll Call

RA II GTO

[Gtowolf]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Bulletin for RA II:



Fan:

Note My II car did have a chrome air cleaner lid on it back in 76 when I bought it I still have it.I bought a black one thinking it was correct???

[johnta1]

Would a 'non-RA II' (stock) air cleaner have a chrome top?
(I would think so, just different size possibly?)

[Greg Reid]

Base '68 GTO 4bbl aircleaner had the chrome top. Open scoop RA cars with the foam seal did not IIRC. Not sure about the 2bbl cars?

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Latest Updates to the Registry Listing.

.......
18. Convertible - 4spd
VooDoo Green - Black Buckets - Black Top
Located in Arizona
Owned by PurelyGTO68 since 1988
Documented BHC on PY

.....

Glad to be on the list. The RAII Bird Roll Call thread is some great reading....(this one isn't too bad either... )

I will tell what I know about the history of our car. Perhaps I'll get lucky and someone on here will recognize the car from it's earlier life before we bought the car.

My brother purchased this car as a project in 1988 in Tucson Arizona. At the time I owned a '70 RAIII and my uncle had a '73 LeMans Sport Coupe 400 manual trans. My brother wanted in on the action, so he found this car and felt he could fix it up. The person we bought the car from had it for a little bit over a year and purchased it as a project with the same intentions. The person who owned it prior to that had it for 11 years and raced the car at the local tracks (according to the person we purchased the car from...)

At the time we found the car it had been repainted a color similar to Mayfair Maize. The GTO quarter fender decals were installed as well as Ram Air decals on the hood. At the time, we didn't know that 1968 models didn't come with hood decals.....we were mostly familiar with 1969 and 1970 models so as far as we knew, all GTOs were Ram Air. Pretty much every GTO that we'd ever seen had Ram Air decals so we didn't think anything of it when the '68 had them as well.

The car was sitting in a field. The convertible top was ripped and torn and the interior was completely shot. The original engine was gone and replaced with a 1967 RA or HO engine from a Firebird. All the other RA stuff was there....intake, carb, air cleaner pan, hood baffle, open scoops, M21 trans and 4.33 4 pinion posi rear end etc. So, we plunked down $800 and trailered the car home. My uncle and I removed the body from the frame and we completely restored the chassis and rebuilt the entire drive train, brakes, fuel lines etc. We then put the body back on the frame and prepared the car for new floor pans. Around that time, my brother had an occupation change so work stopped on the car until more funds were available.

Weeks turned to Months and Months turned to Years. By this time the 3 of us had married and started families. My uncle and I moved away from Tucson, so my brother simply kept the car in storage until he was ready to resume the project. Around 2004, my he met a fellow at a local car show that had a restoration business and they came to an agreement to have him finish the car. This shop proceeded to disassemble the car and empty my brother's wallet. To be fair, it's likely that my brother sorta gave up on the car as well.

Meanwhile, my passion for classic American cars lives on. I've completed a few projects of my own. My most recent project was a frame off restoration of my father-in-law's '1961 Bel Air Bubble Top. It's a one owner car and my wife and kids assisted with the restoration. We had a wonderful time building that car and giving it back to our dad to enjoy once again.

We attended a car show in Tucson a couple of months ago where the '61 won Best of Show. Our dad was very proud. As luck would have it, my brother stopped by and we got to talking. By this time I had assumed that he sold the car and didn't have it any more but to my surprise he said that he would be interested in having me finish his car for him. Of course I said "You still have that car!".....and "hell yeah, let's go get it!".

The following day we went to the address of the shop to discover the owner had lost his lease and the cars had been moved somewhere else. We had no idea where. My brother remembers talking to the guy about 18 months earlier and he said he was relocating soon but he wasn't sure where. This baffles me because I can't understand how anyone could leave there car with a shop so long and not know details about the repair/restoration progress or check up on the car on a regular basis. Over the next several days it became fairly obvious that my brother had given up on the car and was ready to forget about it and move on.

I was less likely to accept that fate. My wife was even more animated than I and we tracked down some leads and found the car. The body and chassis was across the street and the off parts (doors, fenders, bumpers, hood etc) were at another location about 5 miles away. Apparently the owner of the shop was in an accident and ended up in the hospital for 8 or 9 months. When he defaulted on his lease, the landlord used a forklift and moved all the cars and parts out into the street. A good Samaritan neighbor took pity on him and moved the cars into his yard while all the smaller parts went to another shop nearby.

With my brother's permission, my wife and I made arrangements to recover the vehicle and whatever parts we could. All the parts were left out in the elements. The new floors weren't primed so they had a nice coat of surface runs. The chassis was in pretty bad shape as well. It was a fairly sad scene. Luckily I had a fairly good memory of what parts to look for and was able to spot and collect most everything. It was a bit of a scavenger hunt. The air cleaner pan was found in the front seat of a 67 Mustang. The hood and doors were buried behind other hoods against a fence. The bumpers were in the back of an old truck. It was quite a scene.

I loaded everything up in my trailer and brought it back home. My brother saw the parts and said he was done with the car and asked if I would be interested in buying it. We agreed on a price and then he would only accept half of that amount. He said he would like me to have the car since my wife and I did all the legwork to track it down. He can see that my wife and I have a passion for these sorts of things and he just doesn't share the same level of interest that we have in cars. I guess that's okay, not everyone is a car person.

So here we are. I am nearly finished with my '55 Bel Air so I hope to start this project around Dec/Jan ish. I've been taking inventory and doing lots of research. I don't think it's likely that I'll find a WY block so I'll probably use a RAIV block that is available. I have the RAII heads along with the intake and carb so that stuff is in hand already. I have a short list of items remaining and then I'll start planning the project. The remaining items are common '68 parts so they should be obtainable. The local salvage yard has two '68 convertibles for parts so that will be helpful.

I have a new one piece floor already. I'll probably put that in around November or so. That will allow me to put the body on a rotisserie so I can get it ready for paint. The rockers, quarters, front fenders, doors, cowl, trunk etc is totally rust free so that is going to be pretty nice. The last car I restored was a total rust bucket so it will be nice to have OE sheet metal for a change.

Here are some pics of how the car looked when we found it and when I got it back home. I have the car insured through Hagerty but I think I should up the value. What do you guys think a reasonable value would be on a '68 convertible RAII project car? Is $15-20k out of the question as it sits now? This includes the 4 bolt block and RAII heads, carb, related parts etc....

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Man that is one wild back story on your car.
Its lucky to even still be a car anymore.

Thanks for hunting us down and sharing your RamAirII Convertible here.

Your insured amount seems plenty within reason to me.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The prep / repair order that 1oldgoat mentioned previously.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Picture of the driver side exhaust heat shroud as found on the Aegena Blue Ram2 GTO.



Pictures of same shroud after a face-lift.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Picture of Base 68 GTO WT/YS Breather/Lid




Picture of 68 Ram2 Black/Gold Vert Breather/Lid

[68pongto]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

I don't think it's likely that I'll find a WY block so I'll probably use a RAIV block that is available. I have the RAII heads along with the intake and carb so that stuff is in hand already.

There is someone selling a RA II block right now on the forum



http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...9&highlight=wy

[The Boss]

There are two of them here on the forum, I believe I PM'd you (or somebody else) the links to them. They are both within a couple hours drive of me - I can assist with them if you would like.

I would go higher on the valuation of the convertible - with less than a handful of them surviving to date I would double that number at least.