[BR57]

Maybe this is not news but from 1955 until 1977 GM Canada installed Chevrolet engines in Canadian built cars. In Canada, Pontiac engines are therefore Chevrolet engines. Now GM called them different names. Small blocks were Astro-Flash, similar name to Chevy Turbo-Fire and big blocks were Astro-Jet, similar name to Chevy Turbo-Jet. Pontiac badged them this way too. Big block cars are by far the rarest but they were produced. There was even a 2bbl 396 called Econ-Jet used in a car very similar to the Chevelle called Beaumont up to 1969 when in 1970 we finally got the GTO.
The blocks were painted Chevy oranage but the badges pulled in the Pontiac blue. I attach an air cleaner photo so you can see plus some Chevy-like Pontiacs. Notice the Pontiac rally wheels on these Beaumonts?

The fact that Canadian Pontiacs came factory equipped with Chevy engines is why Firebirds were allowed to compete in Trans Am racing in 67, 68 and 69Pontiac had no engine to meet the rule of 305 CID or less so Canadain built Firebirds with Chevy Z28 302's were allowed to race. In 1970 the rules allowed Pontiac to destroke a 400 to 303 and this is when most people remember Firebirds competing in Trans Am. So the car named after the racing series had to be Canadain built to race in the early years. That's why so few actaully raced.

348 trip-power, 409 dual quads, 327 High Performance, run of the mill 283, 396, 427, 454 and of course the Chevy 350 all found their way into Canadian Pontiacs.

Car names were Strato Chief, Laurentian, Parisienne, Parisienne Custom Sport, Grande Parisienne, 2+2, Acadian SS, Beaumont SD-396 to name a few.
So when you go to a cruise here in Canada with a Pontiac, one of the first questions you'll get is "Blue Block or Orange Block?" this way you'll know exactly which country the car came from.

My car by the way is an orange block 73 LeMans 350 4bbl built in Oshawa Ontario - Canada.

[BILTIT]

Blue block = American block too!

[BR57]

Yes indeed BILTIT as you note the Blue Blocks are also known as American Blocks and even Pontiac Blocks too. Your photo of the Pontiac, Blue, American Block looks like one awesome power plant!

[BILTIT]

Thank you! It is a decent power plant, i have not yet tested its full potential but it sure has some power.

[pontorquer]

I have never heard of first generation firebirds with chevy motors, I always seen them with American blue pure Pontiac engines. Finally in 1971 or 2 we got real Poncho power in our Canadian built Pontiacs such as 1973 Pontiac Parisienne Brougham 455, I owned one of them !

[BR57]

See attached files, one is from Trans Am historical records verifying existence of Chevy small block Firebirds and the other a GM Canada ad with 68 Firebird and 327 Astro-Flash in copy.

You are right in that in 1971 GM Canada began using Pontiac Blue Blocks in place of big block Chevrolets in the big cars but oranage small blocks continued until the switch to the corporate blue in 1977.

[pontorquer]

Well, I learn something everyday ! That must be super-ultra rare ! Do you have the production #s ? Thanks BR57 !

[Carl S]

I wish to respectfully disagree with both documents.

In the Titus story, I don't believe they say that there were any Chev engines installed in the Canadian Birds. Rather, someone managed to convince the powers-that-be that in Canada, the Birds had Chev engines so they allowed them to race with one in the Bird.

In the other pic, the ad is a general Pontiac ad (not specifically a Firebird ad) that happens to mention a 327. The 327 was available in the full size Canadian Ponitacs.

I will gladly post a copy of the available engines (showing American Pontiac engines only) from the Candian Pontiac Firebird parts catalogue if anyone wishes to see it.

Carl

[BR57]

Here is the quote from the Titus piece:

"For 1968 and 1969, a loophole in the SCCA rules permitted Pontiac Firebirds to run Chevrolet engines, as that's how they were sold in Canada."

I am no expert on Firebirds, in fact I have only owned one and it had a blue block under it's hood.

I wish everything that GM Canada wrote in their sales brochures and owner's manuals were true, that way I might have ended up with a 455 SD in my 73 LeMans and we all know that motor never made it into one Lemans, but the sales literature shows it, the owner's manual shows it and the fuse box diagram even has a circuit for the hood scoop solenoid that would go with it.

Carl S sounds like he knows his stuff though. I guess you can't believe everything you read. If some one out there has a Firebird with a factory Chevy engine we'd all love to see a pic of it. One thing for sure though, Canadian full sized Pontiac, LeMans, Acadian and Beaumont all had Chevy orange motors under their hoods.

[BR57]

1st Generation Firebirds & Trans Am has a web page at the following link:

http://www.tachrev.com/Web_Pages/1st_Gen_TA.html

They even talk about Chevy engine equipped Canadian Firebirds being built there.

Carl S talks about someone convincing the Trans Am sanctioning body that Canadian Firebirds had Chevy motors. That must have been some con to convince the sanctioning body for Trans Am Racing that Canadian Firebirds had Chevy motors. Lots of other folks have been tricked too as you can find references to Chevy motors in Canadian Firebirds all over the web as shown by the above link. Almost 40 years later and there are articles everywhere speaking about it like GM Canada actually put Chevy motors in Firebirds. Like I said that was one fantastic con, must be the record holder for the longest con in history.

[goquick]

The reason most GM cars up to the mid seventies had chevy engines in Canada was a Canadian law that vehicles sold in Canada must have Canadian built engines. Since Pontiac did not have a Canadian engine plant, the Pontiacs there got ripped off with not only chevy engines, but chevy frames/narrow tracking too. The law got modifed at some point to allow some flexibility, but the major part of the car line still requried Canadian built engines.

[BR57]

So goquick, are you saying that 67, 68 Firebirds sold in Canada would by law have to come equipped with Chevrolet engines? So far no one is doubting that the full sized line or Beaumonts, Lemans and Acadians came this way.

[BR57]

"Pontiac filed papers with FIA to get the Canadian Firebird homologated for competition. As we all know, Pontiac does not have an engine, except their OHC 6, that falls into the 305-inch displacement limit. But since Canadian Firebirds come with Chevy engines, Chevy's nifty Z-28 is eligible."

Quote from Motor Trend - 1968.

[Carl S]

Hmmmm, that is an interesting quote. I have been a Pontiac follower since I was about 16 when I got my first one. That is 33 years ago, and I have never seen a factory installed Chevy engine in a first generation 'Bird.

However, I am also old enough that I have learned to never say "never"!

Carl

[goquick]

AS I always understood it, the reason(s) were Canadian Laws. But speaking with a friend earlier today about this, he said that Canadas tarrifs were so high on car engines from the USA that gm just elected to install chevy engines in most gm of Canada cars since they had a chevy engine plant in Canada.

[BR57]

Being Canadian we just took it for granted that Pontiacs had the same engines as Chevrolets. When we saw one with a real Pontiac engine we got excited. Remember we are going back to the days when Pontiac ruled the racing scenes and street scenes, the late 50's to mid 60's. As I said I have had only one bird and she had the blue block. This is not to say every car had a Chevy engine because there were 326 and 400 cars here. Just like the LeMans line, while most LeMans cars got small blocks the GTO always had a real Pontiac engine but they were only built here in 1970 and 1973.

I will try to find a photo of a 1st generation Canadian car to post so all can see. I have to admit it has been a while since I saw one, and in fact I was out to a cruise last night with over 100 cars and not one 1st generation Firebird was there.

Like Carl S, I was raised on Pontiac's but the ones in our family had mostly Chevy engines, a 61 Strato Chief with a 283, a 65 Laurentian with a 327, a 70Tempest 350 Blue block, a 73 LeMans Sport Coupe with a Chevy 350, a 76 Grand LeMans with a Chevy 350 and a 80 GP with a 301 Pontiac.

As goquick says the reason was the Auto Pact, a trade agreement between our countires. The tariffs would have priced US Pontiacs out of reach of the intended market. Here Chevrolets and Oldsmobiles were sold together and Pontiacs and Buicks were sold together, this was a way to give people an entry level car and a luxury model to aspire to at the same dealer. In essence most Canadian Pontiacs are Chevrolets with Pontiac looking bodywork and interiors.

[BR57]

This is more from the 1968 Motor Trend article............

"Pontiac did not cherish the notion of racing with Chevy power but it made the car competitive right off the bat for anyone who wanted to run it. Toronto, Ontarian Terry Godsall wanted to race. He hired driver Craig Fisher and imported an Al Bartz 304 Chevy that put out nearly the same power as Donohue's. By this time Chevy had become incensed to the point of issuing a bulletin to dealers not to sell their hot cross-ram manifold to Firebird owners but Godsall managed to bluff his way through."

[Wareagle]

There never was a factory chevy v-8 in a 1st gen. Firebird -GTO--in Canada--Thats fact. There were chevys in big Pontiacs but not in the first line cars like the Firebird and GTO-John Delorean made sure of that .

[goquick]

Too bad he didn't make sure all Pontiacs in Canada had Pontiac power. But I am sure gm boardroom didn't give him that many options. Proves general mess was trying to be a mess even in the good years. And they have succeded. Think they will still be around at all in 15 years?

[Wareagle]

Also the GP'S of that era were all Pontiac powered-which was also a first line car -one of Deloreans favorites --my friend in B.C. Canada owned a very quick 69 GRAND PRIX SJ 428-390 hp version. He said he would beat up on a lot of Chevy's.