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Old 02-09-2020, 08:13 AM
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Default Info for Conical springs with D port iron heads

After doing some sniffing / playing around and I have this to report back.

Comp Cams 7228-16 springs will work for a hydro roller set up with just some normal work.

The stated installed height on these is 1.800" which makes for about 135 psi on the seat, but the needed retainer for these springs closes up the installed height down to 1.700".

This will work with iron D port heads when running regular high comp lenght valves along with cutting the spring seats .100" or so.

The proper keepers need to run with the combo of these retainers and our 11/32" valve stem, is the Comp part number is 648-16, the retainer part number 774-16.

The seat pressure @ 1.700" is about 180 psi and you can run up to .525" lift and still be .050" away from coil bind.

Cutting the spring seats more to get 160 on seat will allow a lift of .550" while having that same .050" away from coil bind.
Total cost with the free shipping that places have now would be like 360 Bucks.

Over next weekend I will play around more with these springs and report back.

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Last edited by steve25; 02-09-2020 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 02-09-2020, 09:02 PM
jonathonar89 jonathonar89 is offline
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Awesome, interested to hear your results!

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Old 02-10-2020, 04:31 AM
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Guess you could also run +.050" locks and get to 1.750" as long as it doesn't compromise the retainer to rocker arm clearance?

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Old 02-10-2020, 07:03 AM
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Maybe so , good point!

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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Old 02-19-2020, 08:17 AM
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Ok on Monday I got the conical springs, retainers and the needed keepers for these retainers so here's my findings so far.

With a 1.850" installed height these springs provid 130 psi on the seat, and at .525" lift 318 psi while still bring well away from coil bind.

Note that non of these numbers I give here in regards to the needs of cutting springs seats are cut in stone, as valve jobs on a given heads seats and valves will sink them a unknown amount until the work is done and the installed height is checked.


The closest drop in to running these springs in a iron head will be with the low comp heads that start off using the 4.980" valve lenght.

Using RA4 lenght valves in these low comp heads will call for cutting the Intake spring seat .164" and the Exh spring seat .185"

To use these springs in high comp heads with a 5.09" valve lenght it looks like a spring seat cut of some .288" would be needed, so these heads would need to run RA4 lenght valves also , plus cut the spring seats the needed amount.

Here's a shot of the 3 common lenght valves of the Exh type 4.980", 5.110" and 5.185".

The first photo is the stock retainer on a 5.09" valve and then the conical retainer on a 5.09" valve.
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:49 AM
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Is there another retainer available? I've got 670s with the spring seats cut .100 and 5.1" valves, but even that wouldn't let me run the setup you list with a .560" roller cam.

Can you run less seat and open pressure with a beehive vs a conventional 2-coil with a voodoo type roller cam? For reference, Paul C and others recommend 160 seat/360-400 open with a roller cam and conventional dual spring w/dampener setup.

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Old 02-19-2020, 01:11 PM
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These part number springs could be set up for hydro roller Cam usage on iron heads, but for solid roller Cam usage you need one of comp Cams other conical springs , or PAC conical springs, and they would not work due to the needed installed height unless your running aftermarket heads or if you had custom longer valves then 5.250" made up.

There are other factors also, like don't forget that above a common replacement lenght valve you can't get off the shelf Intake valves with a 30 degree seat if that's what your running.

I don't think that other retainers are available other then Titainum, but there might be offset keepers as I just have not looked yet.

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:37 PM
antique69lemans antique69lemans is offline
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Something fishy on that retainer. Is that for 8mm valve ? Locks don't look right.

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Old 02-19-2020, 06:43 PM
antique69lemans antique69lemans is offline
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Look at comp 787-16. Those are for beehive springs on Non ls engines. I think vortec 5.7 heads use 11/32 valve and locks would seat deeper. I haven't dug into diameters to see if they would fit spring. I was looking at 26995-16 which has less rate.

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Old 02-20-2020, 07:54 AM
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I will double check with comp Cams later today, but those 774-16s are definitely the correct steel version of retainers needed for those springs, and those keeper are the same ones a local race engine builder with 45 years in the trade uses to go from the 7 degree of those keeper to the 11/32" SBC valve stems.

I will post details when I get them gang!

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:48 AM
antique69lemans antique69lemans is offline
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Go to Summit page and look at the customer review for those springs. Customer has a pic clearly shows locks fully seated.

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Old 02-20-2020, 09:59 AM
Steve C. Steve C. is online now
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Valve Spring Tech: Secrets of the Industry Revealed

http://www.cpgnation.com/valve-sprin...stry-revealed/

Material from 2003.....

The effective valve mass has been significantly reduced with these springs. The 20 hp increase was achieved on back-to-back testing with a GM Performance Parts 454 HO Rat motor with the Comp #26120 Beehive spring compared to a Comp 911 spring which is standard springs recommended for the cam used. The cam was a Comp XE282 hyd roller.

David Vizard has stated his own experience to date indicates that a beehive spring of about two-thirds the mass of a conventional spring will run a typical street roller valve train to 200-300 rpm more while the seat load drops from 145 to 130 lbs. and over the nose from 345 to 310 lbs.



( Information provided in this post does not represent any endorsement. And unless specified it is not based on personal experience and is offered for general interest only )


.

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Old 02-20-2020, 10:44 AM
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Well I just got off the phone with Comp Cams and they confirm that the 648 keepers are the ones needed to mate to 11/32" stem valves.

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:25 AM
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I'm building an XF 4 bolt 428 (.030 over) using a Voodoo 704 and just completed assembling the #62 heads using RA IV length valves, PAC 1219 beehive springs, PAC +.050 locks and retainers. Had to cut the spring seats .080" to get the 1.800 installed height. The PAC 1219 has 135 seat, 348 open and is designed for .625 lift. I had the exhaust guides cut for positive seals, my closest clearance from retainer to the seals is .710, planning on Harland Sharp 1.65 rockers, so on paper my max lift should be .580 Very similar set up except I'm non-roller.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:44 AM
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Great, and thanks for sharing all the info!

135 on the seat with a conical spring should be more then enough to get the 428 up to 7000 rpm with out a hiccup!

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #16  
Old 02-20-2020, 12:15 PM
antique69lemans antique69lemans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason67 View Post
I'm building an XF 4 bolt 428 (.030 over) using a Voodoo 704 and just completed assembling the #62 heads using RA IV length valves, PAC 1219 beehive springs, PAC +.050 locks and retainers. Had to cut the spring seats .080" to get the 1.800 installed height. The PAC 1219 has 135 seat, 348 open and is designed for .625 lift. I had the exhaust guides cut for positive seals, my closest clearance from retainer to the seals is .710, planning on Harland Sharp 1.65 rockers, so on paper my max lift should be .580 Very similar set up except I'm non-roller.
Will there be an issue with bottom of spring not having locator ?

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Old 02-20-2020, 01:12 PM
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Well those PAC springs with a stated 145 lb at a 1.800" height, and with you having seen 135 lb they have the average % of psi shift for most any spring I have seen over the years.

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #18  
Old 02-20-2020, 06:24 PM
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They are advertised as 135 @ 1.800. Dont know where the 145 came from.

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Old 02-20-2020, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antique69lemans View Post
Will there be an issue with bottom of spring not having locator ?
Machined the spring seat to be the locator, granted they are only .080 tall, but better than nothing.

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Old 02-20-2020, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve25 View Post
Well I just got off the phone with Comp Cams and they confirm that the 648 keepers are the ones needed to mate to 11/32" stem valves.
I'll try one more time. Go to Comp website and look up the 774-16 and the 787-16. They are identical EXCEPT for valve stem diameter. I suspect the cone diameter is different for the keepers. That is why you are giving up .080- .100" installed height.

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