#21  
Old 09-08-2020, 09:25 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Dragncar - Yes, I gapped the rings myself. It was a 0.040" over 455, and my target gap was 0.019" for both of the rings per mnfg. instructions. I had the bench grinder from Butler, bore squaring tool, and worked inward on one side of the ring only. Afterwards, I used a light stone to dress / remove the cut end. A couple rings I over gapped to 0.020" or 0.021". I was very comfortable with this process.

Main caps were numbered and straightforward. I'm pretty sure I got the rods right. Yes, there was a fat side and skinny side, and I noted that on install and installed according.

Chiphead - I mispoke, I had electrical power, but the engine shut off, so everything went quiet, and my initial thought was that I lost ignition, coil, dizzy, or some fried wire in between. The starter was still clicking, but not turning over the motor, so my first thought went to electrical.

Dataway - The engine won't turn in either direction. I tried yesterday.

Slowbird - Filter clean. Oil clean.

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3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2020, 09:45 AM
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My guess is something got loose, dropped into the cylinder and stopped the motor . I would use an inspection tool through the spark plug holes, if you have access to one. Pull the heads. Hopefully it didnt do too much damage to the short block.

  #23  
Old 09-08-2020, 09:56 AM
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Explain your rocker adjustment procedure.

EDIT: Also, what valves are in the heads? Original ones refaced?
.

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  #24  
Old 09-08-2020, 10:24 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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HWYSTR455 - Zero lash + ½ turn of preload. I followed SD Performance instructions, which was straight forward and easy. Following the firing order with each valve on the heal of the cam. He has an easy process. The poly lock tightening was per Harland-Sharp instructions. Also, straight forward.

Edit - New valves. Ferrea. The machinist completely redid the heads, and all components therein. I only installed the rockers, pushrods, and R&Red the checking springs on the #1 cylinder after sorting out the push rods.

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1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"

Last edited by wbnapier; 09-08-2020 at 10:33 AM.
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2020, 10:58 AM
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S

All or some plugs have gap closed?

Correlate to one side of manifold?

Mechanical contact obvious?

I would pull the valve covers look for anything obvious.
Remove all rockers and look for anything obvious.....valve/s open or hyper extended spring,


  #26  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:01 AM
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What kind of pistons? Cast, forged, or hypereutectic?

  #27  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbnapier View Post
HWYSTR455 - Zero lash + ½ turn of preload. I followed SD Performance instructions, which was straight forward and easy. Following the firing order with each valve on the heal of the cam. He has an easy process. The poly lock tightening was per Harland-Sharp instructions. Also, straight forward.

Edit - New valves. Ferrea. The machinist completely redid the heads, and all components therein. I only installed the rockers, pushrods, and R&Red the checking springs on the #1 cylinder after sorting out the push rods.
Dang, well, some of that easy stuff has been eliminated then.

.

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  #28  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
The smashed plug gaps ............ or a valve timing failure, timing chain, something like that.
This would be my first guess also.

And warped/bent valves is what closed the plugs.

For a first time build... Improper install of the fuel pump eccentric would be highly suspect. Unless you've done it before, most don't know that the nose of the cam comes all the way through the gear and the eccentric fits over it.

Eccentric bolted on with cam gear and nose of cam flush will let the bolt work loose after a little run time. Once loose the keyway will strip and let pistons hit valves. That's with high lift cams that make the engine interference fit.

Bunch of bent valve stems will lock an engine up.

So if anything is amiss under the valve covers. Next step would be pulling timing cover to see if cam gear has slipped.

Clay

  #29  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:49 AM
428 tempest 428 tempest is offline
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had similar situation a couple years back . motor with all new parts and a couple thousand miles on it. vaulve head popped off and wedged between head and piston. pull valve cover and check pushrods on piston with smashed plug. good luck!!

  #30  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:50 AM
428 tempest 428 tempest is offline
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had similar situation a couple years back . motor with all new parts and a couple thousand miles on it. valve head popped off and wedged between head and piston. pull valve cover and check pushrods on piston with smashed plug. good luck!!

  #31  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:25 PM
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It would be best to take valve covers off for an inspection.
See if anything looks wrong.
If nothing, then take intake and valley pan off to see if anything is wrong.
Then pull heads I guess if nothing is found.

You will basically need the engine to be rotated to pull it without a lot of work, so start with this.



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  #32  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:34 PM
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Even though it doesn`t explain the closed plugs, I would take all belts off and see if the engine turns. Then, check flywheel, bolts, clutch etc. If all good, it`s in the motor somewhere.


Did that engine run good before it quit? Noise at the moment it quit?

  #33  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:41 PM
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While you`re at it, pull the trans and see if the motor turns. Maybe a problem in the front of the trans.

  #34  
Old 09-08-2020, 02:19 PM
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Just thought about it ... happened when getting off the gas/ down shifting ... when just about every timing chain failure takes place .... so I might throw my vote in with the guys that suggest that as the source. Although I assume the timing set was new.

  #35  
Old 09-08-2020, 02:33 PM
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I agree ....take a breather, Walk away....come back in a couple days with a clear head! if the plugs were smashed, something is a miss or separated. Hope its something small!

Jim

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  #36  
Old 09-08-2020, 04:10 PM
Joe's Garage Joe's Garage is offline
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Default I'd start with the driver's side valve cover. It's only four bolts.

Since you mentioned changing back to the heavy valve springs from the lighter 'checker' springs, there's a pretty good possibility that the keepers on one of the springs for cylinder #1 did NOT seat correctly.

That would explain the cascade that would cause the engine to stop turning. (I hate using the word 'seized').

And to add my voice to the chorus, if you get frustrated WALK AWAY for a day or two

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Old 09-08-2020, 06:20 PM
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Plus- We want to know what happened! Maybe something in the timing set let loose?

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  #38  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:49 PM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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I pulled the valve covers and loosened all the rockers. All looks good. All valves up and held by keepers cleanly. Springs look OK. All pushrods, now loose, move and look OK from what little you can see up top.

I loosened all the belts and the engine's still seized.

I can confirm that 3 of 8 spark plugs have no gap. I am not convinced that a proper length spark plug can have mechanical interference unless debris is in the chamber or a rod breaks. I have R43S spark plugs. Gapped to .045.

I put a boroscope in the spark plug holes. Some cylinders looked pristine, others with big brown spots from what I assume is improper combustion. No signs of mechanical intereference or debris. I can still see a nice cross-hatch on the cylinder walls. Inconclusive.

Timing belt was new. Melling set from Butler. Everything was new. Installed straight up. No issues there.

Joe's Garage - It was bitch with getting the #1 real springs on with my spring compressor, as the tool angle didn't fit the heads, but I eventually got them to sit cleanly with the keepers on the valve stems and they are fine still from visual inspection just now.

QUICK-SILVER - I didn't know about the eccentric install weirdness. I remember the eccentric going over the cam nose. I had Rocky Rotellas book and another one from the web, and I follwed instructions. I can't remember any issues, and it went on as it came off as I recall. Who knows, maybe that's it.

As for timing chain, if it failed and a castrophic timing event followed, I would still tear the motor down. So, it's getting pulled. I'd rather disassemble the engine out of the car.

The tranny is the wild card. Maybe something weird with the front of the tranny is causing it to seize despite the car moving fine in neutral. Wouldn't that be something! It's a new Auto Gear Muncie, M22W, built my Paul Cangialosi in Florida. EDIT - A few thousand miles. I dialed in the bellhousing and aligned to within 0.005" with offset dowel pins. I pull the tranny first anyhow, so we'll find out.

I've drained all fluids and disconnected everything up top, fuel, z-bar, exhaist, etc. Carbs off, and lift plate installed. I should have the motor out with a few more hours of work. Hopefully next weekend.

Very depressing, but I really know my way around a '65 GTO now. I'm still unsure of what I am going to do with this car. One day at a time.

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1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #39  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:12 PM
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Remove the fuel pump and look inside with the borescope.

  #40  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:23 PM
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I've been there. Like others have said take a break. Then set a goal for your family duties, then the car. No one was hurt. You wanted this GTO ,so relax it will be figured out.Take your time. It's easy to get discouraged. I've done it more than once. I had to re machine 2nd time a SD455,luckily the machinist to screw up the heads to bad.Do not quit! Good luck.

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