[antique69lemans]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

I used one set of Crane lifters in a Pontiac to date. I remember them being cut down where the lifter bars attached not straight across the top like most others. I also remember that the engine they went into had no valve train noise and revved right past 5800rpms without a hint that they were going to start acting "stupid" like some others we've tried over the years. At that time, which was around 2004 they were considerably more expensive than other offerings.....

I think current price is close to $800 but really, if you could bank on them being trouble free it would be worth it.

[Formulas]

I not to long ago tried to fit comp cams gold 1.65 roller rockers on a set of Edelbrock heads and no matter what length I set my adjustable pushrod at I could not get the roller comfortably off the edge of the valve stem

Got Harlan Sharp rockers fit like a charm at 9.150

You might be fighting a battle you cant win with the Scorpions

.

[Will]

Originally Posted by Formulas

I not to long ago tried to fit comp cams gold 1.65 roller rockers on a set of Edelbrock heads and no matter what length I set my adjustable pushrod at I could not get the roller comfortably off the edge of the valve stem

Got Harlan Sharp rockers fit like a charm at 9.150

You might be fighting a battle you cant win with the Scorpions

.

He posted a picture with a pretty good pattern and one with a poor pattern. Said the only difference was pushrod length.

Am I missing something?

[Formulas]

Actual wear mark on the valve tip post #25
I would be more comfortable if the wear mark was closer to center

I know correct pushrod length is shortest sweep but when you get that sweep where is the contact on the valve tip?
And that is controlled by center of the roller tip to center of fulcrum dimension

Not all rockers are being built with this dimension correct for Pontiac which can lead to side loadings of parts or incorrect pushrods lengths to compensate

Like I said I replaced in mock up a set of Comp gold with Harlan Sharp conventional and it made a world of difference

Just food for thought something is going on can't say everything is good and have out of the normal noise

Also pushrod alignment could be better as evidence by the wear mark
There isn't full contact across the valve tip it favors the bottom of the pic

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by tom s

I ask Mike Jones if he had a choice of what lifter to use in his own engine he said Johnsons.FWIW,the "older"857 Comp lifter im told were Johnsons.I have a set of them in one of my engines right now.Never had a issue with them and did NOT have to do any lifter bore machining.

That's interesting, and the same conclusion that Paul has come to. He prefers Johnsons.

If the older 857 Comps are Johnsons, then that's what the shorter lifter would be in that picture I posted above. Those were bought way back around 2000 or so and ran in a 455 Pontiac for several years with a 254/262 @ .050 Hydraulic roller and no lifter bore mod, they were perfectly quiet, just as you have experienced as well. Kept them around with plans for another Pontiac build in the future.

[tom s]

Pretty sure those are Johnsons.Comp went from them I guess they were having some QC issues also.I have a set in a running engine also.Tom

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by tom s

Pretty sure those are Johnsons.Comp went from them I guess they were having some QC issues also.I have a set in a running engine also.Tom

So that leads me to believe just as you have found, that there is something to be said with these lifters and their internal clearances. Quality control just isn't very consistent among some of these lifter manufactures.

Otherwise, why would a short set of lifters in my picture run perfectly quiet for me in a 455 with no lifter bore mod. Now having a set of the taller "S" lifters in dad's Pontiac engine, which are also running perfectly quiet.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Shorter pushrods would be correct for the condition noted. A shorter pushrod tips valve side of the rocker arm up and moves the contact point further away from the rocker arm stud. Longer pushrods move the contact point closed to the rocker arm stud. You may be hearing the rocker arm roller running off the edge of the valve and down onto the chamfer making a knocking sound as opposed to the normal sewing machine reciprocating motion sound.

[RocktimusPryme]

Mine are also comp and also noisy. It almost sounds like LS piston slap. Or hell maybe it is piston slap and Ive been blaming the lifters. I thought maybe mine were bleeding down, but it was broken in on an engine dyno. If they were bleeding down due to them being the Chevrolet body, there is no way I would have made the power I did. Ive read that if you only have a half turn of preload, you can put in another quarter turn and they may quiet down.

[65sport]

Originally Posted by adynes

1/2 turn on a 7/16-20 adjuster will move .025 at the stud, but it will move .040 at the pushrod with a 1.65 rocker, and .042 at the pushrod with a 1.5 rocker.

.025*(1.65+1)/1.65 = .040
.025*(1.5+1)/1.5 = .042

Very good info. I always forget to factor in the rocker ratio.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 65sport

SO

.That's 20 threads per inch, 1 inch = 1.000/20 = .050 = 360' rotation. I come up with 324' rotation for .045" lash.

Is that correct ? In reality, I'd probably just go a little short of a turn.

Yep

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Mine are also comp and also noisy. It almost sounds like LS piston slap. Or hell maybe it is piston slap and Ive been blaming the lifters. I thought maybe mine were bleeding down, but it was broken in on an engine dyno. If they were bleeding down due to them being the Chevrolet body, there is no way I would have made the power I did. Ive read that if you only have a half turn of preload, you can put in another quarter turn and they may quiet down.

Yeah the slight noise one might make doesn't really affect anything as far as how the engine will run. It's just noise that drives some people nuts I guess.

The 455 I just built uses the short body roller lifter, with the lifter bore mod done. Voodoo lobe profiles that aren't aggressive. I have just a smidge past 1/2 turn preload to get them in the range instructions preferred as measured with a dial indicator. It makes a noticeable sewing machine sound. Has 1.65 Harland Sharp rockers which might contribute to some of that. But on the dyno it didn't make a bit of difference, it still made great power with a really nice torque curve and ran all the way to 6,000 rpm, never skipped a beat. Peak power at 5700 and only lost a few HP at 6,000 so it wasn't like it was dropping like a rock (which might indicate a valve train problem)

So it's really nothing to worry about. The new owner doesn't mind the sewing sound and the car runs fantastic.

[Stripes]

Sound is so subjective. While one hears a sewing machine, another hears a money with 32 hammers. All I know is these Comp Hyd lifters are significantly louder than any hydraulic or Original Rhoades lifter I have set the preload on in the past. Mine have no indication(witness marks) the rockers are running off the valve tips. Mine start quiet with cold oil and increase as the engine oil warms up.
In long discussions with Com Cams techs, they confirm the preload can be set anywhere within the piston range and not affect the sound or performance. So, 1/4, 1/2, 1 turn in makes no difference in sound on mine until you bottom the pistons out, and then they are silent. You don't want to run them bottomed out. I found bottoming them out and backing off a turn resulted in the same sound. So the lifter at low idle with thin oil bleed off so fast they make noise. At speed they sound fine. It seems the issue may be an excessive bleed rate, so maybe this is actually a "Rhodes" like hyd roller-ish acting lifter? I am running restricted Smith pushrods...and there is still a significant flow of oil over the rockers. I wonder if very restricted pushrods (even more) would help keep the lifters pumped up at idle?

[JLMounce]

I've been following this thread, but haven't chimed in. My engine acts basically the same. At cold idle, it's quiet, as the engine heats up, the valvetrain gets noisy.

I have the Lunati branded Morel's in my engine.

Over time I have kind of pinned it down to lack of pressure at warm idle. at 800rpm, my engine only produces about 13 psi of oil pressure. When the engine is above idle and making between 40-60 psi, the lifters are quiet and you just hear the sewing sound of the HS rockers. Once the oil pressure drops below about 20 psi as the engine idles down, a few of them start clacking.

If your engine behaves like that, there's likely no lifter you can put in it that won't have the same type of personality. The solution is to get the warm idle oil pressure into a better range. That could be an expensive journey depending on what the cause is (oil pump, bearing clearances etc.)

I've learned to live with it until I'm at a point where I need to think about having the bottom end done.

[tom s]

I never run my rollers less that 1000 RPMs even hyd.Tom

[JLMounce]

What's you're reasoning there Tom?

[78w72]

Originally Posted by tom s

I never run my rollers less that 1000 RPMs even hyd.Tom

1000 rpm idle? is there a reason or benefit for that high of idle? seems like it would be an awfully hard hit going into gear on an auto trans.

[Formulajones]

I think the idea around that is more splash lube and was something suggested quite a bit for a while by various builders when running a solid roller.



1000 wouldn't be bad in an auto if there was a decent converter behind it.

I have this 455 here idling around 900 out of gear, and it only drops to 750 in gear. Has one of those new 9.5" Converters in it from Cliff that drives really nice. I hardly feel it go into gear.

Dad seems to like his 571 idling a little faster too. It idles down to 700 in gear and idles pretty good but he likes it idling up around 850 or so in gear which is up just a smidget over 1000 out of gear. I think dad just likes the sound of the camshaft idling a little faster. Again one of Cliff's converters and it's pretty nice going in and out of gear. Nothing head snapping about it.

The Z my wife drives, I like it idling up around 1050 to 1100, but it's a stick car so doesn't matter much. Just makes it a bit easier to take off, and it makes a little more vacuum for the brakes that way since we are up at 5,000 feet and lose 2-3 inches of vacuum thanks to the laws of physics.

[tom s]

All my pontiacs are stick shift.Like FJ says more splash for the needle bearing. Tom

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by antique69lemans

I think current price is close to $800 but really, if you could bank on them being trouble free it would be worth it.

Well worth the money if you don't have to change them 3x.