[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Well, I looked it up and CMC only lists one flat tappet cam core for a Pontiac now. So I assume the Melling SPC-8 core is the same as all of the flat tappets now. So if you end up going with a white box RA4 cam ground at CMC, just probably makes sense to find the cheapest one, because they are all going to be the same.

Too bad, I have a Melling SPC-8 in my cart right now, maybe I’ll post a want add for the Crane version before I pull the trigger

[P@blo]

Last two SPC-8 from rockauto this year were CWC cores. Figured more information is always helpful.

Great info Jay S

[Kenth]

CWC Textron makes the cam cores.

https://www.kautex.com/en/mobility/cwc-textron-castings

CMC (Camshaft Machine Company) grinds camshafts.

Two different companies.

BTW CMC is one of at least ten camshaft grinders in the US 2024.

https://cylinderheadmfg.com/camshaft-manufacturers-usa/

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by P@blo

Last two SPC-8 from rockauto this year were CWC cores. Figured more information is always helpful.

Great info Jay S

You can check and see if what you have is a standard CMC Proferall cam core. My last SPC-8 that was a different core was in 2018. If you measure across the very top of the point of the lobe where it is machined, it will measure .56” on a standard CMC core (118600)that CMC currently sells.

All the cam cores say CWC on them. CWC cast them and CMC or EPC rough finish’s them. I think EPC has a wider variety of core offerings, I think they have a standard that is the same a CMC Proferall, and a better HC for Pontiac’s. They have P55’s also for other brands, but I have not heard of a P55 used for a Pontiac. I wouldn’t think CMC would source cores from EPC, but these days you never know.

From what I understand even off shore cores can have the CWC logo cast into them.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Jay S

You can check and see if what you have is a standard CMC Proferall cam core. My last SPC-8 that was a different core was in 2018. If you measure across the very top of the point of the lobe where it is machined, it will measure .56” on a standard CMC core (118600)that CMC currently sells.

All the cam cores say CWC on them. CWC cast them and CMC or EPC rough finish’s them. I think EPC has a wider variety of core offerings, I think they have a standard that is the same a CMC Proferall, and a better HC for Pontiac’s. They have P55’s also for other brands, but I have not heard of a P55 used for a Pontiac. I wouldn’t think CMC would source cores from EPC, but these days you never know.

From what I understand even off shore cores can have the CWC logo cast into them.

Thanks Jay. Interesting information. Measured a newer SPC-8 as 0.48" on the nose and 0.53 on the base circle. The old Comp cams cam I have came out at 0.51" on the nose and 0.56" on the base circle.

I have to ask, are the lobes tapered slimmer towards the lobe nose? Because the comp has more lift.

Merry Christmas guys, I always like reading your posts!

[67Fbird]

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ictureid=14400

[67Fbird]

not good at doing pictures...argh

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Kenth

CWC Textron makes the cam cores.

https://www.kautex.com/en/mobility/cwc-textron-castings


CMC (Camshaft Machine Company) grinds camshafts.

Two different companies.

BTW CMC is one of at least ten camshaft grinders in the US 2024.

https://cylinderheadmfg.com/camshaft-manufacturers-usa/

Merry Chistmas Kenth,

Do you know if there has always been the same core from CWC? Both the old cam I have with the wider lobes and the recent SPC-8 cam with the narrower lobes are CWC cores. Thinking about where the lifter rides on only one side of the the taper, I am not sure it would matter if the width was reduced slightly on the back side. Maybe the change was to save money?

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Jay,
Is this the Wolverine Cam?

Stan

This is the cam that Jim Hand had in his 455. Likely still in the engine. Seemed like Bullit made it for him.
Is Bullit still in business?

Thanks, All, for this thread.

I bought one of the Crane 041 cams, years ago, from Paul K, Hope I still have it (long story)

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

This is the cam that Jim Hand had in his 455. Likely still in the engine. Seemed like Bullit made it for him.
Is Bullit still in business?

Thanks, All, for this thread.

I bought one of the Crane 041 cams, years ago, from Paul K, Hope I still have it (long story)

https://bulletcams.com/

Ask for Tim Goolsby.

[Jay S]

Merry Christmas!

I think I remember Jim Hand tried to have Bullet copy the Wolverine cam and there was something about it that they could not copy. I mentioned it in that other post. That cam was something they came up with at Bullet that was fairly close to the Wolverine. (Insert Paul K’s comment what is a few thousandths and a couple of degree among friends here) IRC, that person behind that cam may have been John Partidge. I think Jeff is correct, it is still in the car.

Stan or one of the other guys likely knows more on core specs than me. But I think the .56” core width listed for CMC cores for Pontiac, IRC..is the width at the base circle where the cam core was roughed in at. It varies and is hard to measure. Whatever the width the core was over the nose will be the same no matter what the lift is. The base circle can get wider with a higher lift profile. If the core was from EPC the cam will have EP1 cast into it, along with CWC. EP1 will be cast into the opposite side as CWC. CMC core only have CWC cast into them, the cams from comp could be EP1’s. Comp uses a lot of EPC cores.

I think one of the SPC-8 cams I had that had the wider lobes is at a friends shop. I might be able to get some measurements off of it, I recall it had .560” width over the nose. If you compare that, with just rough numbers to a cam has .48” over the nose the narrower lobe is loosing about 20% of the contact area. If that is a general trend for cores right now, it makes a person wonder if that is another part of the issue with cams going flat these days.

I know of a Compcams 041 that went flat during the break in a few weeks ago. I”ll have to check with him and see if I can get him to measure the lobe width. I bet it is those narrow lobes. It had HLJ lifters, but got broke in with the single springs that come with flat tappet E heads and 1.65 rockers. Which was close to 280 lbs over the nose, 30 years ago the probably would have been fine.

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Merry Christmas!

I think I remember Jim Hand tried to have Bullet copy the Wolverine cam and there was something about it that they could not copy. I mentioned it in that other post. That cam was something they came up with at Bullet that was fairly close to the Wolverine. (Insert Paul K’s comment what is a few thousandths and a couple of degree among friends here) IRC, that person behind that cam may have been John Partidge. I think Jeff is correct, it is still in the car.

Stan or one of the other guys likely knows more on core specs than me. But I think the .56” core width listed for CMC cores for Pontiac, IRC..is the width at the base circle where the cam core was roughed in at. It varies and is hard to measure. Whatever the width the core was over the nose will be the same no matter what the lift is. The base circle can get wider with a higher lift profile. If the core was from EPC the cam will have EP1 cast into it, along with CWC. EP1 will be cast into the opposite side as CWC. CMC core only have CWC cast into them, the cams from comp could be EP1’s. Comp uses a lot of EPC cores.

I think one of the SPC-8 cams I had that had the wider lobes is at a friends shop. I might be able to get some measurements off of it, I recall it had .560” width over the nose. If you compare that, with just rough numbers to a cam has .48” over the nose the narrower lobe is loosing about 20% of the contact area. If that is a general trend for cores right now, it makes a person wonder if that is another part of the issue with cams going flat these days.

I know of a Compcams 041 that went flat during the break in a few weeks ago. I”ll have to check with him and see if I can get him to measure the lobe width. I bet it is those narrow lobes. It had HLJ lifters, but got broke in with the single springs that come with flat tappet E heads and 1.65 rockers. Which was close to 280 lbs over the nose, 30 years ago the probably would have been fine.

Well that’s disappointing to hear, I was wondering about the Comp Cams version since Butler uses them for everything now. Wasn’t there a few complaints in the past about the Summit 2801 having skinny lobes vs other cams? Pretty sure that I read that here? I would think skinny lobes would bring the lifter face towards the end of the lobe due to tolerances stacking up in these 50 year old blocks, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Also, while a PITA it seems like using an older set of springs with 1.5 rockers for break in is a good way to add some extra insurance?

At some point real soon I need to commit to one of these HFT 041 grinds for the 455 build I’ll be doing this winter, if only spending all the money for a roller was a guarantee of success I’d just do it so my analysis paralysis will finally end!

[77 TRASHCAN]

I did some digging. Somewhere, here, someone mentioned Summit's 041 cam (their branding) part number 2821. It's a 041 copy, also.
I'm not sure how long it's been out. It's considerably cheaper than the Melling SPC-8, they have for $272.99, the 2821 is less than $200.00 dollars. Likely the exact same cam.

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

I did some digging. Somewhere, here, someone mentioned Summit's 041 cam (their branding) part number 2821. It's a 041 copy, also.
I'm not sure how long it's been out. It's considerably cheaper than the Melling SPC-8, they have for $272.99, the 2821 is less than $200.00 dollars. Likely the exact same cam.

The Melling version is $185 on Rock Auto vs $272 on Summit. Summit has the Crower 60919 for $310 & cam saver lifters for $157, the Howard’s version is $373 with Howard’s lifters. I really should just buy one of these already but can’t decide which.

[Kenth]

This is the GM (Chevrolet) Performance Pontiac RAIV camshaft #12364044. Last time i checked it was the Crane "blueprint" series camshaft stamped "968".

https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...64044/10002/-1

There is also a GM (Chevrolet) Performance Pontiac H.O. 068 cam #12364043. Crane "blueprint" stamped "878".

https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...64043/10002/-1

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by Kenth

This is the GM (Chevrolet) Performance Pontiac RAIV camshaft #12364044. Last time i checked it was the Crane "blueprint" series camshaft stamped "968".

https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...64044/10002/-1

There is also a GM (Chevrolet) Performance Pontiac H.O. 068 cam #12364043. Crane "blueprint" stamped "878".

https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...64043/10002/-1

This is the first I’ve heard of this version, wonder if it’s still the same core & lobes as the “blueprint” version?

[Kenth]

Here is the Summit RAIV camshaft:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-2821#overview

[PAUL K]

Crane supplied the "GM Performance" camshafts. One popped up here recently in the classifieds section

[blueghoast]

It's been a while since I bought a RAIV but I went through
Auto Zone and then it was only around $125.00. Don't remember
how long it's been though. Try them and see. It was a melling cam.

GT

[Joe's Garage]

Just checked at AutoZone. SPC-8 is $295. Ouch.