[Stan Weiss]

I believe back in the day Ramon Lowe ran a '58 with FI and at one time it ran C/SA. Someone please correct me if my memory is off.

By this time I believe the classes had changed. This show him running D/SA with that car.

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...nals_1-20A.pdf

Stan

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

I believe back in the day Ramon Lowe ran a '58 with FI and at one time it ran C/SA. Someone please correct me if my memory is off.

By this time I believe the classes had changed. This show him running D/SA with that car.

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...nals_1-20A.pdf

Stan

Yeah, I suppose he was like so many other Pontiac guys, that have run several different Pontiacs during their racing career.

The pic of the '62 Cat I posted definitely has Ramon Lowe on the door. Don't have a clue how many different Pontiacs he raced. But, his cars ran strong.

[ponyakr]

Can't remember if I've posed a link to this video or not. Anyhow, it's just a 5-min video, which has several Pontiacs in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyU-M0Pw51o

[sdbob]

Reading an old Hot Rod today Don Gay was disqualified at the Nationals with his 62 Catalina stocker, why? his stock muffler was gutted! He told officials he bought a stock muffler and that's the way it was! Ashame seems pretty. If another make might have let it go.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by sdbob

Reading an old Hot Rod today Don Gay was disqualified at the Nationals with his 62 Catalina stocker, why? his stock muffler was gutted! He told officials he bought a stock muffler and that's the way it was! Ashame seems pretty. If another make might have let it go.

Read about another DQ because the muff was too short. Had to be 18" long, at that time.

Tech was way too picky about small things that had nothing to do with ET. I assume that in some cases, the tech guys wanted to feel like they were in charge.

Today's tech is much more slack. And rules have been relaxed to make tech easier. That's why Stockers go so quick. Any cam duration, any valve spring pressure, acid porting heads/intakes, H-beam rods, super light auto trans. All these things allow some Pontiac Stockers to run low 10's & turn 8000 rpm.

I read that one NHRA tech quit, quite a few years back, because NHRA had told them to let the acid porting deal slide. Therefore, if you really wanna get the most out of most any engine, you'll have to do what the other quick guys are doing. Yeah, it's really that simple. Sorta like having the option of running a Roch 2-barrel or a Q-jet, in the same class. The guys running the Q-jet will run quicker. The guys running the 2-barrel will run slower.

For the combos that have been beat on for many years, it would be interesting to know how many years it's been since any of those cars have made the 128 car Indy field, with heads & intakes that had absolutely as-cast head & intake manifold ports. Would also be interesting to know which cars have made the field with as cast ports, in recent years. Some combinations occasionally come along that have such a soft index, that they don't really need that extra work, until NHRA gets the hp factor where it should be. I think an El Camino & some trucks may have fallen into this category, a few years back. Check out the vehicles near the top of these Q-lists. Obviously, I have no way of knowing what head work was done on any of these engines.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

[ponyakr]

Pretty sure I mentioned it earlier. But I really love that 2004 Q-list. There are nearly a dozen Pontiac powered cars that ran more than a sec under their index.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

Read about another DQ because the muff was too short. Had to be 18" long, at that time.

Tech was way too picky about small things that had nothing to do with ET. I assume that in some cases, the tech guys wanted to feel like they were in charge.

Today's tech is much more slack. And rules have been relaxed to make tech easier. That's why Stockers go so quick. Any cam duration, any valve spring pressure, acid porting heads/intakes, H-beam rods, super light auto trans. All these things allow some Pontiac Stockers to run low 10's & turn 8000 rpm.

I read that one NHRA tech quit, quite a few years back, because NHRA had told them to let the acid porting deal slide. Therefore, if you really wanna get the most out of most any engine, you'll have to do what the other quick guys are doing. Yeah, it's really that simple. Sorta like having the option of running a Roch 2-barrel or a Q-jet, in the same class. The guys running the Q-jet will run quicker. The guys running the 2-barrel will run slower.

For the combos that have been beat on for many years, it would be interesting to know how many years it's been since any of those cars have made the 128 car Indy field, with heads & intakes that had absolutely as-cast head & intake manifold ports. Would also be interesting to know which cars have made the field with as cast ports, in recent years. Some combinations occasionally come along that have such a soft index, that they don't really need that extra work, until NHRA gets the hp factor where it should be. I think an El Camino & some trucks may have fallen into this category, a few years back. Check out the vehicles near the top of these Q-lists. Obviously, I have no way of knowing what head work was done on any of these engines.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

JMO but that right is one of the major reasons building a stocker cost so much more money now!

Stan

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

JMO but that right is one of the major reasons building a stocker cost so much more money now!

Stan

Yeah, I've read where several stock guys agree that the cam & valve spring rule was the real game changer. Before that, engine rpm was limited by valve spring pressure.

But, with any pressure OK, that allows LOTS of cam duration. But, valve spring pressure is now one thing the techs do not have to check.

[455firebird1969]

Don Elgin and his Stock Eliminator car at Bremerton Washington, I was stationed at Port Angeles WA (1986-1990), I think it was 1989. His car was a little rough around the edges, you could tell he had been running it for many years. When he launched, it lifted the left front wheel pretty high, twisting the chassis, planting the right rear tire hard, it wasn’t pretty but it worked. He was running the Stock/Super Stock combined class. I ran my 1969 Firebird in the Bracket Class at Bremerton.

In 2000, I went to Sears Point in California to watch the National event. I only went one day, and spend a lot of time walking the pits, checking out the Pontiacs running the different Sportsmen classes. I ran into Don Elgin again. Don’s car was looking much better, he had painted it white, with red & blue trim. He was wearing a white team style uniform that matched his car, with red & blue trim. His car was launching straight and level, unlike years prior back in Bremerton.

I pulled a recent picture of his car off the Internet showing the newer paint scheme, from 2015.

As far as the five amber tree goes, they were still using it at Cecil County Dragway, Maryland in 1978/1979. I ran a 1969 Firebird convertible from my High School days in the F/SA class, I won some trophies back then too. ET slips were written on a card, Car Number, ET & MPH, win/lose was the only info.

[ponyakr]

Never saw the car with that old paint job.

Also, not many racers still haul their car on a ramp truck.

There was a time when most race cars were hauled with ramp trucks, even Funny Cars. 2-car teams used a ramp truck pulling an open trailer. I've owned at least 6 ramp trucks, that I can remember.

In recent years, most racers haul their cars in long enclosed trailers. Those that go to lots of big races, around the country, pull their trailer with megabuck motor homes. Some are built on long frame 18-wheeler type trucks. I think the common term for these is Toterhome. This is just one more reason why today's Stocker racing is NOT a cheap hobby. Now, if you happen to live close enuff to a track that runs Stock, on a regular basis, you can get by with an open trailer, pulled by a pickup.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...w=1366&bih=609

Most low buck racers, like me, built their own ramp beds. But, for those with more money to spend, Hodges was always the big name in commercial custom ramp beds. They would extend the truck frame & build nice beds, with tool boxes & storage compartments, on most any type or size truck you can name. Nowadays, one of these beds will cost a good bit more than I paid for any of my new 1-ton tucks, back in the '70's & '80's.

http://www.hodgescustomhaulers.com/haulers.html

[ponyakr]

Think I've mentioned this here before. But, I wanna bring it up again.

In 1973, at my home track, Stock class cars could not run soft compound slicks or cheater slicks. They had to be the hard compound full tread street tires.

That's what the NHRA rule book said.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...5-jpg.1153558/

But, for 1974, we could run a new DOT cheater slick. It had 2 small grooves. Below are pics of M&H tires, that are still sold today. The tread pattern looks exactly as I remember, on those tires we ran in '74.

So, were any of you guys running Stock Elim in '74, even if only at your local track ? If so, did you run any of these tires, or know of others who did ?

I've read that NHRA actually made these tires legal, towards the end of the '73 season, just in time for the US Nats. After thinking this over, I remember that Truman Fields won the US Nats that year, in his '68 Bird. In the final, he & his opponent both set new nat records. I think Truman turned a 12.06.

So, now I'm wondering if both cars were using those DOT cheater slicks then. Can anybody think of someone I can contact who might know for sure ?

On my computer files image, I can see wrinkles in Truman's RR tire. That means the tire was a wrinkle wall drag tire. That tells me that he was running those DOT Cheater slicks.

Sorry I don't have a way to produce a clear larger image.

[ponyakr]

Here's 3 more Pontiac wagons I found.

The caption under the last pic says that car swept Stock Elim. I assume that was at the Winter Nats. Also mentions the year 1967. The drivers name was Graham Douglas. So, do any of you guys have 1967 Winter Nats results, showing the Stock winner's name ?

A couple of online sources does show that car as the Jr. Stock winner.

https://www.revolvy.com/page/1967-NHRA-Winternationals

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/NHRA_Winternationals

One source for this info is the Doug Boyce book: Junior Stock, which came out in 2012. I'd love to have a copy. But I'm not paying $55 for one.

https://www.amazon.com/Junior-Stock-.../dp/1934709913

Anybody here have a copy, you'd sell, real cheap, or would agree to look up race results in ?

[ponyakr]

Here's a '65 version of the Packer Pontiac Pampered Papoose.

[ponyakr]

Here's some more about the Ton-a-Fun wagons. As many here know, Gary & Charlene Wood had at least 2 of these wagons. One had a regular Lemans front. The other had the GTO type front, which I think was called a T-41 option. Ya'll correct me if that's wrong.

The last pic here shows one of the wagons, before it had the Tons-a-Fun lettering.

They ran both the round port & D-port 455 engines.

I loved those wagons.

[ponyakr]

Here's some more pics of a couple of D/S nat record holders.

[ponyakr]

While combing thru some old Class Racer threads, I ran across a win for Bryan Phillips, on Dc 1, 2012. he drives a '67 Bird. The reason I didn't find any results for this race is because it was what is called a "National Open". Those results are not usually covered on DRC, under either "NHRA" nat events or the Lucas Oil Series race results.

Here's all the info I have about the race.

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=44617

It was called the "Turkey Trots National Open".

http://www.nhradiv2.com/apcm/templat...2593&zoneid=14

[Skip Fix]

So, were any of you guys running Stock Elim in '74, even if only at your local track ? If so, did you run any of these tires, or know of others who did ?

I ran those "cheater slicks" in '72 in IHRA Formula Stock on my Impala. Had Goodyear. Ran them on the street street racing two. Got a little dicey if it rained!

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

Can't remember if I've posed a link to this video or not. Anyhow, it's just a 5-min video, which has several Pontiacs in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyU-M0Pw51o

Thanks for that video, fun to watch. As far back as 15 years ago, I know of several NHRA stock racers that have spent as much as 20K on a pair of castings to "properly prepare" the bare iron castings. You can take it from there. That probably has something to do with them running well over a second under their index if they want to. It's all part of the game I guess. Thanks for all the great still pics as well, just love seeing these cars.

[ponyakr]

Here's a few more pics, which I don't think I posted.

Only pic I remember seeing of the Husler.

2nd pic shows Lindy Lindholm as the driver. I'm sure most here will recognize that name. He's raced lots of Pontiacs. Most recent was the '74 Formy, which was stolen.

Ramon Lowe has been mentioned. He did real good with the '58 Pontiac. The 3rd pic shows his car, when he was partnering with an Easley.

The 4th pic shows the car, when his partner was a Brown. His name was Gene Brown. At the '69 Winter Nats, Gene is listed as the L/SA class winner, & Lindy is listed as the I/SA winner, both in '58 Pontiacs.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-2-jpg.700471/

I recently found out that Tommy Brown is the son of Gene Brown. Some may remember that I've posted about Tommy being entered in races, out on the West coast. Tommy drives a '74 Lemans, which runs pretty strong. It's usually near the top of the Q-list, sometimes higher than the other Pontiacs on the list. .

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

[sdbob]

I wrote a letter to NED DIV1,NHRA in mid 70s to find out what hood was legal for a 73 SD Formula. Basically I remember they didnt know except to use the RA Formula hood. I know John Herslow ran a Formula hood initially. Just more 'info' about the times. When I ordered my SD TA the one dealer salesman helped me with specing a Formula SD because I didnt think I could afford the TA. Anyway the salesman priced the RA Formula hood,still have prices, now we know this wasnt correct.