#1  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:32 PM
punkin punkin is offline
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Default Butler Motor Kit

Hello everyone,

I apologize if this is in the wrong section. Hopefully the moderators will move this to the correct location if it doesn't belong here.

I'm strongly considering sourcing my next motor from Butler. I called them yesterday and the person I spoke with was very helpful and informative. I'm now even more looking forward to doing business with them.

We spoke about a turn-key crate motor but because of their backlog they're looking at a year possibly longer for turn-around. I'm not a person of extensive patience and it was suggested that if I were to order a complete kit, the turn-around would be closer to 14 weeks.

I have assembled a couple motors previously...it's been awhile but I could do it again but not my ideal scenario. I was told that all the machine work would be complete before shipping but I certainly understand that all the clearances and attention to detail would be required of the builder/assembler. After all, stuff happens and an additional check would never hurt.

My question to the forum here, has anyone gone this route with Butler and what was your experience like? Was there significant variations that caused for additional machine work? If you ran into any issues how were return/exchanges handled? In my list of materials I would be also ordering an IA2 block...did you find the block to be well prepared, passages clean etc. or did it need a lot of attention. I'm trying to determine if I should factor in additional machine shop or assembly services.

I do understand these guys have a terrific reputation but I haven't had the experience with them as yet. Just wondering if anyone here has and if you had any advice, comments or guiding wisdom.

I thank you.

__________________
1968 Firebird
1970 - 455
#12 72CC Heads
Erson Mechanical Cam
TH350
BOP 8.2 / 3.55:1
3,360 lbs. with driver
  #2  
Old 03-25-2020, 08:09 PM
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64speed 64speed is offline
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I bought eveything from Butler but the block,intake,cam, and stuff like water pump etc. My engine builder assembled it and said it was an excellent kit.

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1964 Tempest Custom
Original 326 Auto with power steering, brake, and dealer installed non working AC.
Built a custom roller cammed 467 all forged internals. TKO 600 trans with Ford 9 inch from Quick Performance with 3.70 geared aluminum thru bolt center section with billet pinion support with an Eaton tru trac. Plans are for car to be Silver Mist Gray with Dark Blue Interior. Keeping bench seat and adding air conditioning.
  #3  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:26 PM
Navy Horn 16 Navy Horn 16 is offline
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I had a short-block and E-Heads, and sourced everything else from Butler. They spec'd everything around my existing setup, and were very responsive to my local machinist for the few questions he had.
I can't recommend Butler any higher. I was able to visit their shop when I worked for GM in Tennessee, and they are great people.

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77 Trans Am, 469 w/ported E-Heads via Kauffman, matched HSD intake, Butler Performance forged rotating assembly, Comp custom hyd roller, Q-jet, Art Carr 200 4R, 3.42s, 3 inch exhaust w/Doug's cutouts, D.U.I. Ignition. 7.40 in the 8th, 11.61@116.07 in the quarter...still tuning.

  #4  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:31 PM
punkin punkin is offline
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I thank you both for the comments. After a rather extensive conversation with the tech, and considering the kind of backlog he described but yet took the time to chat, I got a good feeling about them as well. I appreciate the real world experience commentary.

Thank you.

__________________
1968 Firebird
1970 - 455
#12 72CC Heads
Erson Mechanical Cam
TH350
BOP 8.2 / 3.55:1
3,360 lbs. with driver
  #5  
Old 03-25-2020, 11:32 PM
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ID67goat ID67goat is offline
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Based on my experience....I would buy the parts that YOU want,and then find a reputable builder to build it for you.

My story.....and granted, this was back in 2003/2004 I ordered a 400 stroker kit from Butler because I discovered a crack in my 428 during tear down for a refresh. I told them my car (67 gto) and my current horsepower 420 rwhp and that I was planning to step up the HP with roller cam etc.

So I get the kit and I think everything looks good, machine work checked out ok with my tools....put the engine together, go to put the motor mounts on....nope, later model block which doesn't have holes for my mounts....have to order adapters from Indian Adventures. Get the engine in, starts up fine, gets broken in etc. Perform 2nd oil change around 500 miles later in the spring time and see bearing material. Tear engine down and find thrust bearing surface was too coarse on the Eagle crank and ate the bearing (common issue on some of the cranks at that time)

So this time around I just say hell with it and have my machinist build up the short block. Here is what my builder found wrong:

1. Main housing bore 0.0015 out of round....squashed as if the main studs were added after the fact without an align bore.
2. Crank balance out 12 grams.
3. Connecting rods alignment bad (out of square)
4. Front main cap bearing tang offset 0.100 to rear causing the bearing to ride out too far on the radius of the main cap.

So after spending another $1500.00 to get machine work fixed, new bearings, gaskets, etc...I have a nice running 460 rwhp 557 block engine that I am afraid to take to the track as I am worried it will grenade itself. The thing I was most unhappy about was the fact that it was supposed to be balance ( but wasn't) and the fact that I was sold a 557 block that doesn't even fit my car or horsepower goals.

Maybe it is better now, but because of this experience I will never buy another "already balanced" or "already machined" assembly from anywhere again.

  #6  
Old 03-25-2020, 11:36 PM
yellow1098 yellow1098 is online now
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I also have bought everything from butler and they are wonderful and the best in the business......they even featured me on there Facebook page ....

  #7  
Old 03-26-2020, 02:09 AM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow1098 View Post
I also have bought everything from butler and they are wonderful and the best in the business......they even featured me on there Facebook page ....
They are the biggest name in the business, that is for sure. But the best in the business ??
I mean,they are needed and have a very large selection of parts and all...

  #8  
Old 03-26-2020, 02:15 AM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ID67goat View Post
Based on my experience....I would buy the parts that YOU want,and then find a reputable builder to build it for you.

My story.....and granted, this was back in 2003/2004 I ordered a 400 stroker kit from Butler because I discovered a crack in my 428 during tear down for a refresh. I told them my car (67 gto) and my current horsepower 420 rwhp and that I was planning to step up the HP with roller cam etc.

So I get the kit and I think everything looks good, machine work checked out ok with my tools....put the engine together, go to put the motor mounts on....nope, later model block which doesn't have holes for my mounts....have to order adapters from Indian Adventures. Get the engine in, starts up fine, gets broken in etc. Perform 2nd oil change around 500 miles later in the spring time and see bearing material. Tear engine down and find thrust bearing surface was too coarse on the Eagle crank and ate the bearing (common issue on some of the cranks at that time)

So this time around I just say hell with it and have my machinist build up the short block. Here is what my builder found wrong:

1. Main housing bore 0.0015 out of round....squashed as if the main studs were added after the fact without an align bore.
2. Crank balance out 12 grams.
3. Connecting rods alignment bad (out of square)
4. Front main cap bearing tang offset 0.100 to rear causing the bearing to ride out too far on the radius of the main cap.

So after spending another $1500.00 to get machine work fixed, new bearings, gaskets, etc...I have a nice running 460 rwhp 557 block engine that I am afraid to take to the track as I am worried it will grenade itself. The thing I was most unhappy about was the fact that it was supposed to be balance ( but wasn't) and the fact that I was sold a 557 block that doesn't even fit my car or horsepower goals.

Maybe it is better now, but because of this experience I will never buy another "already balanced" or "already machined" assembly from anywhere again.
I believe every word of it. Know of worse stuff than that. Its not like I not not use them for parts, I do once in awhile. You need to be worried about that 557. My friend had one with a 400 crank, RAIV cam and D ports. Ran 11 flat. Until he pushed every main downward catastrophically cracking the block.

  #9  
Old 03-26-2020, 02:18 AM
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Scott Roberts Scott Roberts is offline
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You can only go wrong with Kauffman ..Butler is your best source.

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Old 03-26-2020, 08:26 AM
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64speed 64speed is offline
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Wayne Sless in Anderson SC built mine and Caster1s engine. I used butlers kit in it but Wayne worked his magic in five months not a year and a half. I would put it up against any Butler motor

__________________
1964 Tempest Custom
Original 326 Auto with power steering, brake, and dealer installed non working AC.
Built a custom roller cammed 467 all forged internals. TKO 600 trans with Ford 9 inch from Quick Performance with 3.70 geared aluminum thru bolt center section with billet pinion support with an Eaton tru trac. Plans are for car to be Silver Mist Gray with Dark Blue Interior. Keeping bench seat and adding air conditioning.
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  #11  
Old 03-26-2020, 09:08 AM
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STEELCITYFIREBIRD STEELCITYFIREBIRD is online now
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What state do you live in ....Punkin?😉
Do you have a shop to put it together for you nearby that does Non production engine building ?
Are you preparing the driveline and chassis for the monster your building?


Last edited by STEELCITYFIREBIRD; 03-26-2020 at 09:16 AM.
  #12  
Old 03-26-2020, 10:19 AM
punkin punkin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD View Post
What state do you live in ....Punkin?😉
Do you have a shop to put it together for you nearby that does Non production engine building ?
Are you preparing the driveline and chassis for the monster your building?
Thank you everyone for the comments.

I am working on the drive train. Recently replaced the rear with a 12 bolt 3.55 rear. The TH350 is getting replaced with a 400 and a 2800 converter.

I live in the Denver area and could use some suggestions on a good shop if you know of one.

Thank you

__________________
1968 Firebird
1970 - 455
#12 72CC Heads
Erson Mechanical Cam
TH350
BOP 8.2 / 3.55:1
3,360 lbs. with driver
  #13  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:13 AM
6T5 Cat's Avatar
6T5 Cat 6T5 Cat is offline
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Location: Bear, Delaware
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ID67goat View Post
Based on my experience....I would buy the parts that YOU want,and then find a reputable builder to build it for you.

My story.....and granted, this was back in 2003/2004 I ordered a 400 stroker kit from Butler because I discovered a crack in my 428 during tear down for a refresh. I told them my car (67 gto) and my current horsepower 420 rwhp and that I was planning to step up the HP with roller cam etc.

So I get the kit and I think everything looks good, machine work checked out ok with my tools....put the engine together, go to put the motor mounts on....nope, later model block which doesn't have holes for my mounts....have to order adapters from Indian Adventures. Get the engine in, starts up fine, gets broken in etc. Perform 2nd oil change around 500 miles later in the spring time and see bearing material. Tear engine down and find thrust bearing surface was too coarse on the Eagle crank and ate the bearing (common issue on some of the cranks at that time)

So this time around I just say hell with it and have my machinist build up the short block. Here is what my builder found wrong:

1. Main housing bore 0.0015 out of round....squashed as if the main studs were added after the fact without an align bore.
2. Crank balance out 12 grams.
3. Connecting rods alignment bad (out of square)
4. Front main cap bearing tang offset 0.100 to rear causing the bearing to ride out too far on the radius of the main cap.

So after spending another $1500.00 to get machine work fixed, new bearings, gaskets, etc...I have a nice running 460 rwhp 557 block engine that I am afraid to take to the track as I am worried it will grenade itself. The thing I was most unhappy about was the fact that it was supposed to be balance ( but wasn't) and the fact that I was sold a 557 block that doesn't even fit my car or horsepower goals.

Maybe it is better now, but because of this experience I will never buy another "already balanced" or "already machined" assembly from anywhere again.
I had the exact same experience with a stroker motor I bought from Butler, and they wouldn't stand behind their work. In fact, they were very rude and nasty when I contacted them about the problems with the machine work.

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  #14  
Old 03-26-2020, 10:36 PM
pokey1 pokey1 is online now
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I used a Butler kit with my block. Everything went together great and has been running great for 4 years now.

__________________
1967 GTO, 467 roller motor, e heads ported, tremec T56 magnum 6 speed and
9" done. EZ EFI 2.0 with FAST dual sync distributor and separate nitrous system done. Track is at 4300 ft elevation. so far a best of 11.95@116. Now to get suspension dialed in..
  #15  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:42 AM
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jimmy daniel jimmy daniel is offline
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They’ve always been good to me and I’ve used them a LONG time. That’s why they stay so backed up.

__________________
1965 TriPower GTO, 1967 GTO, 1969 GTO, 1969 Judge, 1972 GTO, 1977 Smokey and the Bandit, 1989 TA ProStreet, 1968 Firebird NHRA 10.90 racecar, 1963 Tempest S/Gas
  #16  
Old 03-27-2020, 11:38 AM
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torqhead torqhead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkin View Post
Thank you everyone for the comments.

I am working on the drive train. Recently replaced the rear with a 12 bolt 3.55 rear. The TH350 is getting replaced with a 400 and a 2800 converter.

I live in the Denver area and could use some suggestions on a good shop if you know of one.

Thank you
Sigy's is the only machine shop I know of here in Colorado that I've seen actually assemble a Pontiac correctly. I'm located in Longmont and know a few other Pontiac folks here in Colorado as well. PM me if you want to talk.

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