[johnta1]

Does anyone know this SD TA?

2V87X4N160235 - Sold new in Canada.

I think we talked about this car recently.

I would like to find any of the previous first owners.

Thanks.

[sd455hota]

Brew, I'm riding with a friend whos bringing his car. Trailering it behind his truck so I'm able to haul some parts to possibly sell. Look forward to meeting some of the folks from the forum etc.

[OVERULD]

Can you say: Challenge????? The fine folks over in the H.O. Forum kindly invite you SD types to a friendly debate...as evidenced below.

2manyT/A'S
Ultimate Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,811


________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300 H&H
I am seriously considering going to Stanton Michigan for the pure stock drags on Sept 12th & 13th. I did the map quest and a search of the lodging in the area. I am wondering if there is a hotel that is close to the track, that is a popular with the "car crowd" Just need some inside info to help with the choice a bit. Thanks, Kirk

P.S. I really want to see an H.O. car whoop-up on and S.D. ......not to mention others...

Kirk
I don't think the SD guys actually RACE their cars.
They just leave them "chained to the trailers".
It's kind of a "display ONLY" thing.



2manyT/A'S
Ultimate Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,811


________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVERULD
LMAO! That ought to get a nice, spirited debate started!! I think I'll copy that over to the SD forum just to give me some online entertainment tonight.

BJ
I think that would be a GREAT IDEA!

Invite them to bring their cars over here.
I've got some bolt cutters to get them chains off & I'll bet with some fresh gas in the tank,we could even get some of them RUNNING!

[SD73]

Put my car on a trailer for SoCal and I am sooooooooo there.

[takid455]

Hopefully someone will chime in here with a question that I can;t seem to find an answer to. I need a single PPG or Dupont or someones paint code for the Super Duty engine blue. I have the pigment list and #'s that is available on the web, but the paint store cont use that. they need a some sort of code for the overall color. I''m sure someone here had to have painted their engine. any help is appreciated. I typically use single stage ChromaOne when I paint engines. It seems to hold up well except on the exhaust ports which I don't thing anything last.

[SD Formula]

Originally Posted by takid455

Hopefully someone will chime in here with a question that I can;t seem to find an answer to. I need a single PPG or Dupont or someones paint code for the Super Duty engine blue. I have the pigment list and #'s that is available on the web, but the paint store cont use that. they need a some sort of code for the overall color. I''m sure someone here had to have painted their engine. any help is appreciated. I typically use single stage ChromaOne when I paint engines. It seems to hold up well except on the exhaust ports which I don't thing anything last.

I just painted parts (valley pan & intake manifold) of my SD engine with PPG paint that I purchased from Scott Tieman. I sprayed a sample on a mylar sheet. PM me with your address & I will send you a sample. Maybe the paint store can use the sample to mix the proper shade for you??

[1qikta]

Classic industries Pontiac Slate Blue 1974

PN62230

[johnta1]

I don't think the SD guys actually RACE their cars.
They just leave them "chained to the trailers".
It's kind of a "display ONLY" thing.

Woo-whee!

I don't have a SD car, but I ran a SD 455 engine.
I'd say if you could use any cam in the engines and every thing else stock, I'd say the SD would kick the HO's @ss!

[Larry Navarro]

I'll bring mine........I've already put some HO cars on the trailer.

I thought there was a guy who built an SD for the pure stock class. Where is that car at?

[1qikta]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

I'll bring mine........I've already put some HO cars on the trailer.

I thought there was a guy who built an SD for the pure stock class. Where is that car at?

Larry,

Only two Sd's that I have seen. Paul Aragona's '74 SD (MI) was in HPP this last month with Dan driving. It runs low 13's in good air at around 104 mph. Also Chuck Lombardi's '73 Formula SD 455 Clone(CT) is in the high 12's around 112 mph.

When can we expect you Larry? Virginia in Oct or Gainesville in Dec?

[johnta1]

Jay, don't they require stock specs on the cam and stuff?

I think the SD was extremely handicapped with the cam it came with.

Does the car have to be a real SD car?

[1qikta]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Jay, don't they require stock specs on the cam and stuff?

I think the SD was extremely handicapped with the cam it came with.

Does the car have to be a real SD car?

Clones are Ok.. but what it has under the hood has to jive with the way the car is presented. So if it has 455 on the scoop it better have a L-75 455 intake, heads, and Carb on the engine.

Cam rules below..


Camshaft: MUST SOUND STOCK!!!-We all know what a STOCK cam sounds like! Camshaft must be STOCK, both in lift and duration for HP claimed. Engines must be able to produce 16.0 inches @ 1200rpm. Certain factory produced engines were not able to generate 16.0 inches of vacuum in showroom condition. Those cars will be given a variance on this rule. Factory Stock coordiantor will have final say on camshaft idle characteristics.

Here are the rest of the FS rules:

http://www.fastraces.org/members/fas...b!OpenDocument

[300 H&H]

I love Pontiacs, especially round port cars...

But you guys take this SD thing way too seriously. There is a list of other Pontiacs such as a RAII and RA IV and H.O.'s that are consistently FASTER than a stock SD in pure stock racing. SD engines are great, and durable, but have too much cam for the compression ratio. And the cars are heavier, as well, by nearly 200lbs. as the bumper laws changed in 73. On the dyno they make 50lb/ft less torgue than an H.O., and coupled with the goverment mandated bumpers and the extra weight this brings, they are in fact slower at the track. If you subscribe to High Performance Pontiac, and have read them, you would know this is true by almost a full second and a several MPH. I hate to burst your bubble about this but as it stands, it is true. Check the record if you are in doubt. RA II and RA IV cars are even faster to boot. But heck thay are all Pontiacs right? And that is what we all like! Best regards, Kirk

[Larry Navarro]

Originally Posted by 300 H&H

SD engines are great, and durable, but have too much cam for the compression ratio.

hmmmm....don't the HO engines have the same CR and cam.
Are you saying that the SD engine can't run well using a "bigger" cam with factory compression?

[300 H&H]

Larry,

The factory SD cam was supposed to be a RA IV "clone", but is was never released to the public, as I recall for emmissions reasons. At the last minute the RA III manual trans. or the 744 cam was substituted..... It was designed for a 10.5-1 comp. motor. As it turns out the 068 cam (RA III auto) was installed in the H.O.....and with the lower compression of the unleaded gas engines, i.e. S.D. and H.O. the 068 cam produces more torque at 8.5-1 compression in these motors. I am no cam expert but this is well proven by a pure stock racer Mark Weymouth,. Go to page 24 or so of the H.O. forum and he discribes what he has learned about these engines. IMHO if you put the 068 in a S.D. all bets would be off, as the extra little bit of head flow.... but alas the 70-72 cars are quite a bit lighter than those that fallowed. So on the track I would put my money on the HO still. It's very hard to drag that much extra weight with equal or nearly so engines. Granted the SD has some severe duty parts that were put there from lessons learned from the HO's. But they make no more power, just have higher limits if modified... Best regards Kirk

PS. with factory manifolds you hit the nail on the head, more cam with stock compression will yeild a slower car!

[Larry Navarro]

I'm not an expert engine builder but from my one-time build of an SD engine, a stock SD engine responds VERY well to a ram air IV cam.
Matter of fact, utilizing a H-O Racing HC-63 (242/250) hydraulic flat tappet in my old service replacement SD with stock components (8.4:1 cr) yielded low to mid 12's @108-110mph, in '73 trans am with 4 speed back in mid '90's.
Alot of opinions vary but in my experience, the "low compression/big cam won't work in an SD" is not always true.
"Myth Busted"

[300 H&H]

Larry,

In pure stock the "Myth" is far from busted.... If you read the next to the last page of the HO forum you might see what I mean. The proof of what I say is very much "In public" at the race track, the HO's win every time. in the last years season shoot off, in the top ten were 4 Pontiacs, a Ram air II, the fastest and a RA IV second, and two H.O.'s. Not and SD in sight.... not saying you did not, but if an SD could why is it missing in action? Not because they are "worth" so much, as MANY of the cars that run this series of racing are "worth" as much or more than an SD car. Within the guidlines of the rules it has yet to be "done" with a stock SD. No "myth" here, just the reality of this situation. Remember we all love round port motors, right? Best regards Kirk

[Larry Navarro]

Yes, in pure stock, it hasn't been proven. However, my point was directed to the statement that the SD can't be fast with a big cam and the stock low compression.
Hell, with Rhoads lifters, it may meet the PS requirements.

[300 H&H]

Larry,

Rhoads lifters are not a legal option...... neither is a big cam. What I will say is that you can go too big with the cam and stock compression...(I should know I have waaaaay to big of a cam in my HO, and it's getting pulled this winter) If you read Marks posts at the HO forum you will see the results on the dyno. It's about the low end torque that you give up with the big cam, and it is why the SD is not in the running. (the SD oil pump cost some 6-10hp as well) I know it sounds counter intuitive.... but the dyno does not lie, nor do the time slips. And short of the factory engineers, I would almost bet Mr Wheymouth has more dyno time than anyone else on these boards with these engines, or most anyone else for that matter. If you read his last post he will be dynoing a SD next Tuesday and he really hopes to make it competive, as I do too. (keep an eye out he says he will be reporting back on this one) Wouldn't it be neat to have another round port motor in the top 10? Acutualy the car to beat is a 440+6 Chrysler/dodge. So why are you missing this point? No one argues that the SD is not a fine example of the last of the muscle car engines.... a damn fine one. But it still remains unheard of in pure stock, and there are reasons for this and Mr Wheymouth is/has found out some of those reasons. That is why I said "you guys take this SD thing too seriously" and pointed out that of the round port Pontiac motors, they have yet to be proven in pure stock racing. all of the other round port's are in the top 10. I rest my case.....Kirk

[johnta1]

The SD used a smaller cam to pass emissions not to be more streetable or to make more power.

I ran a roller cam with .720" lift in a stock SD except for the valve springs.
It ran 6.40's in the 1/8th with a TON of torque and great drivability.

In your class of racing the SD is legislated to have less HP.

I'll stand by my SD. If any cam can be used and all the other engine parts are kept stock, the SD will blow the HO away.