[boostmaster]

Car: 67 Tempest post

History: Purchased many years ago as a resto project. Started off hot and heavy, wife and I gutted the car. I took a bunch of pics, bagged and tagged and then sent the body to the shop to get blasted and an assessment. Floors were soft so they were replaced - as well as the quarters. Entire car is 100% metal - completely rust free- rotisserie job. Frame as blasted and painted.

Has body sprayed in epoxy primer and she has sat like that for many years (stored inside)

Now, I'm trying to make some headway. I've started working on some of the dings (metal bumping)- I have no idea what I'm doing so lots of you tube and a local friend who knows body work is also helping when he can.

I don't need or want perfection. Plan to skim coat and sand as straight and flat as possible in the garage. Then shoot a coat or two of matte black or army green - Still up in the air. (minimal chrome trim)


I have started collecting materials and was wondering if there were any additional tips or tricks or resources I should be looking at. I am dreading all the sanding but I am really motivated to get this part done. I still have the rest of the car to put together and I'm tired of dragging her around and using her for storage.

Supplies include:
Sand paper- 40, 80, 120, 320
Dura blocks
seam sealer
clean sheets
plastic spreaders
Eastwood glazing putty
Dynalite body filler
Evercoat metal to metal
Ibuprophen

Currently, undressed engine and trans are in. That's about it. After the paint, I'm moving to headliner, front and rear glass, etc.

Any input is welcome. This is my first attempt at a full body and paint.

[bdk1976]

I would go to a body work specific site like autobody101.com and read the forums there front to back.

[boostmaster]

I've been perusing that site as well. Thanks!

[Formulabruce]

you need to get to 400 grit sandpaper minimum before any paint, even high build filler primer.
You need 1 gallon Kleen Strip wax and grease remover. It may be called "Prep-All". you must keep oils, including your own hands, off the work/paint surface. (napa)
You need about 5 "tack" rags. ( home depot)
Do not use water base paint for the one stage Matt paints.
You will need a good 3m paint mask with dual filters.
(N95) is Only used for sanding dust.
Do Not paint with plastic lens eye Glasses, you may not be able to clean them . Lacquer thinner will eat the lens.
wear goggles or a shield.
Get 3m good quality masking tape and plastic masking material.( not expensive).
use a cross cross pattern on flat panels with a long board.
Good luck!

[boostmaster]

Thanks for the input. I do have some wax and grease remover. (about a qt. I guess I may need more)

I was really only ramping up on the bodywork and skim coating piece to get the car ready.

I was thinking about the tack cloth but did not consider home depot- thanks for the tip.

Is there a recommendation on the matte paint? (brand or product line?)

[Dadspackard]

Boostmaster,

Check out https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/

I used their Wax and Grease removers, Epoxy Primers, High Build Primer and the Single Stage Black that he discontinued making back when I did the paint on my Packard but I see he is making the Single Stage Black again.

Product was very friendly to use and Barry the owner actually walked me through setting up my spray gun over the phone.

Good luck with your restoration.

Tom

[boostmaster]

Cool. Thanks for the tip. I've heard their name come up a few times...

[mrennie]

First, I am no expert...but I've made a ton of mistakes while doing my bodywork and started over 3 times on some panels, so I've learned a lot of things NOT to do.

Paper grits: IMO 40 is not necessary unless you are using fiberglass filler or metal to metal, for regular filler, use 80, 180, 320, 400. Also, cheap sandpaper is more expensive than expensive sandpaper! The cheaper it is, the more you will use, the harder it is to sand, and the more difficult it will be to get good results. It hurts to pay $$ for sandpaper but the results are worth it. Using a cheaper line for 80 and 180 is OK, but when using 320 and 400 I have noticed a significant improvement in sanding ability and lifespan of paper with the more expensive lines from 3M and Norton. (i.e., Norton Champagne coloured paper is better than Norton Gold, 3M Gold is better than 3M Red).

Not sure why you need metal to metal, I tried it at the start but found it harder to work with and really not needed. If all the panels are butt welded and there are no visible pinholes, epoxy should seal the panel and then any filler applied over the epoxy will be protected from moisture coming through the backside.

Get the easiest sanding body filler you can afford.....this makes a huge difference! I initially used Rage Gold as it was advertised as easy sanding, and was certainly better than cheap generic filler, but recently tried 3M Platinum (not Platinum Plus) and it is even nicer. The better quality fillers are often only sold in gallon cans, FYI

3M makes a great mixing board with tear-off sheets that works much nicer than a plastic board you have to clean each time. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...3786499&rt=rud

3m also makes a great guide coat that is a black powder with foam applicator...you spread it across your panel then block sand until it is all gone. This works much better than using your hand trying to feel low spots...it is fairly pricey but worth it IMO. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...3223475&rt=rud

Get a small can of acetone for cleaning your filler spreaders after each use. Nothing worse than trying to spread filler with spreaders that have a ragged edge

If you are adventurous and patient, look into buying a shrinking disc to help with shaping the panels with metal bumping. To do this properly you need a slow 9" sander or polisher unit (a cheap eBay unit works fine) and the 9" stainless disc, as well as some super large sharpie markers. It is hard to explain through typing.. it seems like magic at first but I had 8-10 decent sized dents on my roof and after getting the hang of it, managed to get them all out except of one that was over a body brace. The ones I did get out using the disc and metal bumping required no filler at all...it really works, and is much better than shrinking using a torch, shrinking hammer, or stud gun with shrinking tip, as the disc only touches the high spots that need to be shrunk (lowered). Much better to remove a dent rather than just filling it with filler. https://www.proshaper.com/product/sh...o-without-dvd/

After you have finished the metal work, spray epoxy primer before applying filler. SPI makes a great epoxy primer than is high quality, flexible, and has a 7 day open period that allows you to apply filler over it within this time frame. It has a bit of a learning curve to spray, if you apply too thick it develops craters, but sprayed thin it works very well and cures glossy...this is a bonus as you can block it with 180 a day or two after spraying and instantly see the low spots, which are still shiny from not being touched by the sandpaper, and then you know where the filler needs to go. https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/6620

SPI also makes a great water based wax and grease remover. This stuff takes more residue out of bare metal than solvent based W&G remover will. https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/waterborne

Some things NOT to do:

-do not use acid based metal conditioners on the bare metal that you plan to prime...they cause adhesion problems with the primer and can result in catastrophe (ask me how I know )

-when finished your metal work and getting ready to apply epoxy primer, make sure the metal has really good sanding marks from an 80 grit DA sander. As a newbie, it is really easy to sand too long using the same disc and get the metal all shiny but too smooth...resulting in adhesion problem because the primer has nothing to bite into (ask me how I know ) The same advice about quality sandpaper applies here too...the cheaper sanding discs will wear out faster and put less less "tooth" into the metal compared to more expensive lines.

-if you are doing bodywork at home, I assume your shop is also used for other things other than working on the car. Before you start, go find all products that contain silicone and put them in another room...do not allow anyone to spray Armor-all or spray wax, car detailer, etc., in your shop. Ask me how I know!

3 weeks ago I brought my motorcycle into my garage after washing it and sprayed some plastic protector on a rag and wiped down the controls and seat. Never considered that this product had silicone in it. Last week I went to spray some epoxy on a panel and got fisheyes everywhere! There must be silicone particles on the floor or walls that are transferring to the panels when I spray. I have been spraying in my garage for 4 years and never had this problem until now, and the work to get back on track is enormous. I have to empty out my shop and wash it down with soap and water, and throw out anything that has been contaminated. This seemingly minor oversight on my part is costing me $$$ in more product and lots of time that I do not have, and I should have known better but was complacent. This is part of the challenge of home bodywork and not having a dedicated facility for paint and bodywork.

[boostmaster]

Wow. Very comprehensive! Lots of good info and detail,

This project was sprayed inside and out with black epoxy primer and stored in the garage for many years- I'm thinking around 8-9 years. Hence the 40 grit to knock it all down.

The sand paper I ordered was from Amazon - called dura gold- reviews stated is was as good as or better than 3m for fraction of price. Worth a try I though.

There are a few dings here and there (several on the roof from when I climbed on it- I thought it was thicker- Lesson learned)

Anyway, all we really wanted was to leave it alone and drive it. Since it's epoxy primer- technically it could last quite a while as the car lives in the garage. However, since we've been fiddling with it, it does not seem like much effort to remove some of the bigger dings. That pro shaper seems pretty cool. I'm tempted...

I may try the smaller ones, but I wanted to avoid the time and hassle of all the body work. I do not want the car to be TOO pretty. I've made this mistake a few times and all I did was created undriveable garage art. I'm almost ready to rattle can it and be done.

Thus, the plan to shoot a quick coat of matte and call it good. All the prep beforehand was just to get it "good enough" for the paint.

Anyway, I am going to move the other art from the garage, hang some plastic sheeting and create a makeshift "booth" so that I can keep the mess to a minimum. I'll definitely be using some of the tips mentioned above... I might mess around and end up with something decent after all.

[Shiny]

Thanks for posting!

My project has been stalled for years and I'm at a near-zero experience level like you so I'll follow this thread closely as I'm psyching up to start back on mine.

mrennie's post is great

I bought a welder and a hammer & dolly set to take on a couple sheet metal learning exercises so far. If you take on panel patching or decide to straighten dents, my biggest lessons were:

- hammer DIRECTLY on a dolly is evil

When you hit directly, it thins the sheet.. the metal gets pushed somewhere else and it WILL bulge and distort a panel.

Best tool I found was this old text... recommend you get one and read it before you start beating on dents. This is probably the best money I've spent to date on my car:



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Automobile-...QAAOSwWp9egidY

(not my listing)


- a shrinking disc exorcises demons

Easiest way I found to remove the bulges I created by not knowing what I was doing. Torches and wet rags probably work great but the disc is easy to use.

- planish a weld

This is the only place a hammer directly on a dolly proved useful to me.. spot welds cause shrinkage and in this case you need to squeeze it back out by thinning to reduce bulges and distortion

- get a contour gauge

It's a cheap tool to copy from the "good" contour (example is a body line) as you try to straighten a ding, dent, or crease.



Have fun!

[boostmaster]

funny you mention that book.

I used: Same Author

[dataway]

With a shrinking disk ... if you have a inward (downward) dent in the roof for instance ... do you go under the roof and hit the high spot?

Mrennie ... thanks for the post, I saved all those links

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by dataway

With a shrinking disk ... if you have a inward (downward) dent in the roof for instance ... do you go under the roof and hit the high spot?

Mrennie ... thanks for the post, I saved all those links

I use a stud welder and then gently heat around the area and pull up on it. I dont use the dent puller though, its way too much. Just small vise grips on the brass stud.

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by dataway

With a shrinking disk ... if you have a inward (downward) dent in the roof for instance ... do you go under the roof and hit the high spot?

For the record, I don't do short explanations, so bear with me

In that situation, because the metal has to come up, I would place a heavy dolly under the roof centered on the dent, and while pushing up, gently tap the area around the dent...this is hammer-off-dolly, and will move the metal. It is actually the weight and pressure of the dolly that is lifting the metal, the hammer is helping to unlock the distortion around the edges of the dent and allow it to rise.

Once the metal is all sticking up (the crown is back), I would "paint" the area with the black Super Sharpie as a guide coat, then run a hard board with 180 grit paper over it. The high spots will become shiny bare metal as the marker is sanded off, and the low spots will still be black.

Then I would run the shrinking disc over the high spots for 10-20 seconds, then spray soapy water from a spray bottle onto the high spots. This will cool them and cause the metal to shrink and get thicker, pulling them down a bit. The soap also helps the disc glide over the metal without grabbing. If you see sparks when you use the disc, then you are using too much pressure or possibly the disc is warped or not centered. The goal here is not to get the metal so hot that it turns blue, but hot enough that when you spray the soapy water, that it turns to steam. If you are shrinking a fairly large area (like 3-4") you can actually see the metal pull down when the water is sprayed.

Then I paint the metal again with the black Sharpie, and run the hard board over to find the high and low spots again. At this point I would pull up the low spots, by putting the dolly under the roof, centered under the low spot, and push up while tapping around the low spot from above. Sometimes the metal needs to be stretched to come up, and you need to tap directly on the low spot from above. This is hammer-on-dolly, and stretches the metal, which if you are pushing up while you do this, will make the low spot rise.

Then I paint the area with Sharpie marker again, and then run the hard board over to find the high and low spots. This time I shrink the high spots again with the shrinking disc.

I just keep alternating between shrinking high spots with the disc and then picking up low spots with hammer-on-dolly until the entire area (or very close to it) is level and sanding with the flat board takes off the marker evenly. When you are getting closer to thinking you are done, start painting a larger area with the marker and sand that larger area with the flat board, which will help show you if the entire are you just worked on needs to come down a bit...and if it does., shrink it gently with the disc. For an amateur like me, I would rather have the are slightly low than slightly high...slightly high will mean as you block sand you keep cutting through to bare metal, and you either need to tap that area down (which may be hard to do), or you need to add a lot of filler or surfacer around that high spot to block around it, which caused other problems.

There is definitely a learning curve. the first roof dent I worked on was about 3" in diameter with a sharp crease on one side, and at first I didn't think anything was happening...the first few rounds made very little change, but after things start moving in the right direction, it goes pretty good.

Big thing is to tap with the hammer, not pound on it...wrist action, not forearms

Also recognize that a dent is metal that has stretched while being displaced inwards...a roof dent, for example, results from metal pressed so hard that the outward crown of the panel was pushed inwards, and then continued to stretch until the metal stopped moving. If you simply pound the dent back out, you end up with a higher spot that the original panel (because the metal has stretched and you are trying to push a larger area of metal into the smaller original area), and there is also distortion around the edges of the dent. So once you pop the dent back out, you have to shrink it so it will pull down and sit flatter...shrinking means thickening the metal and reducing the surface area. The disc works very well because it only touches and heats the high spots, which are what you are trying to lower, and does nothing to the low spots, which need to be tapped up or stretched to come up.

Hope this makes sense? It is hard to explain in words.

[dataway]

Thank you very much for the explanation. Should be easy enough for me to practice, I have a metal shop with plenty of 20 ga sheet I can make dents in.

Will probably order a set of the disks.

[mrennie]

Best thing to practice on is a panel that has a crown of some type, as the metal surrounding the dent will be tight and supported. A flat piece of sheet metal may just oil can when trying to get the dent out that you put in, and may not work as well as a real panel and cause frustration.

Regarding the discs, I got the set with 5" and 9" and DVD. I have used the 5" in a few tight spots with a smaller grinder but the 9" works best if you have the room to work with it.