#21  
Old 07-14-2020, 09:54 AM
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Rich-Tripower Rich-Tripower is offline
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Originally Posted by backn65 View Post
here is 4 gauge panel i made to look like my 65 dash without fake wood panel, i originally had 2 gauge panel
Nicely done! What is the colored portion of the surround made out of ? Is it painted or covered in vinyl? It kind of looks "soft", thus the question about vinyl.

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Old 07-14-2020, 10:52 AM
John V. John V. is offline
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backn65, I agree, that looks great! You could probably sell those.

Rich, I didn't punch any holes in the firewall. In fact, welded one up where a prior owner had crudely opened a hole for the old mechanical (not electrical) oil sender.

Isn't your temp sender electrical? Without looking at my set-up, I don't recall how the wire connects at the sender. Pretty sure it can unplug.

But I made up my own wire harnesses for each gauge with Packard 56 connectors (same type as used under the dash for most stuff), even used similar color coded wires. Each wire goes from sender to gauge with connectors on each end to mate up.

If nothing else, I would have the wires disconnected from the gauges and fed it from the engine side thru the firewall and then under the dash to the gauges.

I'm not using the factory temp sender and idiot light (the idiot lights for oil and volts are in use) but not sure why you need to punch a hole.

I made my wires long enough to route thru the factory grommet where accessory wiring passes thru (near the fuse block connector). Same grommet where the yellow power feed for the convertible top passes thru.

You mention a cable? I'm not clear what that refers to. I understand if it can't disconnect from the sender but can't you disconnect it from the gauge?

Maybe it won't be long enough to reach the gauge? If not, I think I would try to connect a wire extension to it on the gauge end rather than punch a hole in my firewall.

I'm probably just not understanding your set-up but wanted to suggest this in case you hadn't thought of it.

  #23  
Old 07-14-2020, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by backn65 View Post
here is 4 gauge panel i made to look like my 65 dash without fake wood panel, i originally had 2 gauge panel
That looks very slick! Did you fab it from metal, or other materials?

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  #24  
Old 07-14-2020, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by John V. View Post
backn65, I agree, that looks great! You could probably sell those.

Rich, I didn't punch any holes in the firewall. In fact, welded one up where a prior owner had crudely opened a hole for the old mechanical (not electrical) oil sender.

Isn't your temp sender electrical? Without looking at my set-up, I don't recall how the wire connects at the sender. Pretty sure it can unplug.

But I made up my own wire harnesses for each gauge with Packard 56 connectors (same type as used under the dash for most stuff), even used similar color coded wires. Each wire goes from sender to gauge with connectors on each end to mate up.

If nothing else, I would have the wires disconnected from the gauges and fed it from the engine side thru the firewall and then under the dash to the gauges.

I'm not using the factory temp sender and idiot light (the idiot lights for oil and volts are in use) but not sure why you need to punch a hole.

I made my wires long enough to route thru the factory grommet where accessory wiring passes thru (near the fuse block connector). Same grommet where the yellow power feed for the convertible top passes thru.

You mention a cable? I'm not clear what that refers to. I understand if it can't disconnect from the sender but can't you disconnect it from the gauge?

Maybe it won't be long enough to reach the gauge? If not, I think I would try to connect a wire extension to it on the gauge end rather than punch a hole in my firewall.

I'm probably just not understanding your set-up but wanted to suggest this in case you hadn't thought of it.
The gauge is mechanical. As such, the gauge itself, the "cable" and the sending unit are one large contiguous piece and as such it can't be extended or shortened. The "cable" is only 6 feet long. I tried passing it through the firewall at the foam seal where the backup light switch wiring passes through clear over on the driver's side but the "cable" isn't long enough to reach the front of the engine going through that route. It really needs to pass through the firewall on the passenger side near the bellhousing hump and run up the passenger side of the engine to reach. There are no pre-existing holes in that area to exploit. It's just how these gauges are made and have to be installed.

Attached is the best photo I could find that shows how the gauge, thermocouple and "cable" are assembled as a single unit. What I am calling the "cable" is actually a long copper tube with shielding. The gauge, tube and thermocouple are filled with some kind of liquid that transmits the temperature reading from the thermocouple/sensor to the gauge. It is like a big long liquid filled thermometer. As the liquid inside expands, it moves the gauge needle.

My intention is to place the hole in the firewall just below the carpet and just below where the firewall bends to transition into the toeboard. It won't be visible from inside since it will route behind the heater duct then the pass through will be behind the carpet. On the engine side, it will come through low enough and behind the engine so that it will be hard to see where it comes through without really looking.

Now, if this was an early Chevelle with a 4-speed, I'd already have a hole there for the speedometer cable which I could have this cable share, but alas, the Pontiac routes the speedo cable differently.
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Last edited by Rich-Tripower; 07-14-2020 at 02:59 PM.
  #25  
Old 07-14-2020, 03:19 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Rich, never fooled with gauges before so that is all new to me. As mentioned, I had learned about mechanical oil pressure gauges when I was shopping for my new gauges. Didn't realize you could also have a mechanical temp gauge.

backn65's panel looks a lot nicer than what I was planning. Hope he gets back here with more details.

  #26  
Old 07-17-2020, 05:41 PM
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So I got the project more or less wrapped up today except for putting the coolant back in. I want to let the RTV set up before I get it wet.

The project was delayed for a while as I've been waiting for the blanking plate gasket to arrive from InLine Tube. They were supposedly shipped 7/2 but they have yet to reach here. I'm cancelling the order, what a shoddy way to do business. They claim the USPS is slow due to Covid but the tracking doesn't even show the package was ever shipped, only a label was made. Anyway, I made my own gasket which should do fine.

Here are the photos of the particulars.
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  #27  
Old 07-18-2020, 11:45 AM
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Today I put the coolant back in. No leaks sitting static, the real test will be to see if it leaks when hot and under pressure. I got the same amount of coolant in as I took out and it is not over nor under full so it does not look like I trapped any air in the system.

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Old 07-18-2020, 12:25 PM
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Looks good.


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Old 07-18-2020, 12:27 PM
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Nice job, it almost looks factory. Very clean install. As usual.

  #30  
Old 07-22-2020, 11:42 PM
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So, I installed the paper air filter elements tonight and had some spare time so I fired the car up and let it warm up for a while. I don't think it got fully hot as it only got to 180 degrees on the gauge, but that pressurized the system which is what I wanted. No leaks! Temp moved up smooth and regular, not even a blip when the thermostat opened.

  #31  
Old 07-23-2020, 01:51 AM
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the panel was made from sheet metal(drilled 4 holes), the surround is 1/4" hobby lumber(aspen) with many coats of lacquer primer topped of with the interior red in enamel. the dark area around the gauges is the metal with semi gloss black applied with a roller to match the texture of the dash, i do not have the wood insert.

  #32  
Old 07-23-2020, 03:00 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Rich, very nice work. And it actually worked right out of the gate to boot!

backn65, my woodworking skills are even more lacking than my metal working skills. Still say your set-up looks sweet.

I realize yours is not a GTO so the use of the pebble grain on the metal gauge panel makes perfect sense. But even if it was a '65 GTO, I might stick with the pebble grain look on the panel, the wood insert might detract from the surround.

The fact that you have the red interior I think makes the surround really pop. I've always been partial to red interiors, unfortunately my '64 interior is black. I think the surround wouldn't stand out as nicely in a black interior but I still think it will look better than the basic gauge panel that I have.

Is the surround only attached to the metal panel or also to the dash? Glued to the metal panel or fastened some other way?

Does the surround continue with a "bar" across the top or is it "open"?

Is that something you can do with a jigsaw or did you make use of a router?

If you are okay with sharing the details and have additional pix, please post them up, maybe even start a specific thread for it.

  #33  
Old 07-25-2020, 01:58 AM
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i bought a 65 GTO in Nov of 64, it had the fake wood insert which kept coming off so i just ditched it. i have considered getting a wood sport wheel for the lemans which i think matches the insert nicely , since i made the gauge panel without wood i have dropped the wood wheel swap. i saw a 66 gto with a wood wheel painted to match the dash color, might do that for the lemans.

getting back to the gauge panel, i looked for any plans etc that i might have laying around with no luck. a jigsaw works fine cutting the wood. if there is any interest in knowing more, i can make up some illustrations to explain how i did it.

  #34  
Old 07-25-2020, 09:01 AM
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I really don’t have a dog in this fight since I own a ‘64, but I would like to see your handiwork. I enjoy woodworking too. So if yo found a good solution using a veneer or something, I for one would like to see. Please post more.

  #35  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:31 PM
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Went for a good decent drive in the GTO today. It was hot out with plenty of humidity. Didn't baby it around. Temps never went above 195 even when idling. Temps didn't even rise when the car was shut off which was kind of weird, every other vehicle I have with a real temp gauge sends the temps up when it is shut down.

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Old 08-05-2020, 09:55 PM
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Nice work Rich!

Where did you locate the 2nd oil pressure sending unit?

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  #37  
Old 08-06-2020, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
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Nice work Rich!

Where did you locate the 2nd oil pressure sending unit?
On the back of the engine where the stock sending unit is, I removed the sending unit and installed a few fittings to make a T fitting with one side having the warning light sending unit and the other side having the oil pressure line for the mechanical gauge. I had done the same on my truck so it was a proven concept!

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Old 08-06-2020, 08:56 AM
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Great idea!

Would you have any pix of this?

Thx for sharing these useful tips.

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  #39  
Old 08-07-2020, 11:16 AM
John V. John V. is offline
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Here is mine, the 2nd sender came with the Autometer gauges that I use, in my case, the Autometer oil pressure gauge is electrical not mechanical but should be similar concept.

I had a couple issues with mine when it was first powered up.

The idiot light on my '64 didn't initially work. With some help here at the electrical forum, I discovered that to be a burned out bulb.

But after putting a good bulb in, still no idiot light. After some testing, I concluded the brand new idiot light sender was bad. But after playing around some more, it started working. I don't remember exactly what I did, I think it was just turning the ignition on again and suddenly I had a light. Might have tapped it too. It has worked ever since. Somehow, I think maybe the sender was stuck off. Whatever, I was happy that it decided to start working.

Next I realized the Autometer gauge lights weren't working. A ground post heat welded to the back of the gauges had worked loose. I recall that I was able to tighten down a nut on the unused ground post (my wring makes use of the alternate Packard connector terminals on the gauges rather than the wire posts). Don't remember exactly why, but the design of the alternate wire termination points was such that tightening down the nut completed the ground circuit and the gauge lights now work.

I was proud of the wiring harness I made up, it enabled me to power the lights and gauges by using existing factory connectors and plugging jumpers into them that allowed power to the factory component and gauges. I was able to figure out all of that by following the factory wiring diagram. For the most part, I matched the color coding of the factory wiring except I couldn't find gray wiring so the gauge lights used white wire. I posted a pic of my homemade gauge wiring in this thread at Post 13.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=829244
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  #40  
Old 08-08-2020, 09:23 AM
RA1John RA1John is offline
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Thanks John. Well done!

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