[ponjohn]

any numbers?

[67'7F6'Bird]

Originally Posted by dci

Quit short shifting that thing LOL. Sounds good Steve.

Hi Don,

We made it home without anything breaking.

Thank You to my Brother Ed Page, Mike Mithen & Kimberly(My Fiancee) forall your Help and Support, We all had a Great time today. It's been a few Years since I last Raced and I was very inconsistent with Shift RPM and couldn't 60' very well. We had available 28.5" Slicks and used them for consistency. My 3.50 Gears and these Big tires were not ideal, but as you all know this motor is set up for a Supercharger in the near future. I kept the RPM's to 6100 for today. The Timing was Locked out @ 31 Degrees. We are running it with Full Exhaust.

Here is the Video:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3shgymm6y...05.52.mp4?dl=0


Motor Details.
475 CI 4.35" Bore X 4.00" Stroke
8.5 to 1 Compression
251 258 .690 Lift
1050 Dominator

TH400
3500 RPM Stall

Vehicle Weight with Driver 3700 LBS

Best Time today:

11.986 ET
114.68 MPH

1.852 60 FT
330' 5.093
1/8th 7.743 ET 93.84 MPH
1000' 10.026 ET

[ponjohn]

Geez....you can run it on 87 and run 11's all day long.

Lot more there with a better 60 ft.

[67'7F6'Bird]

Here is the Video:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3shgymm6y...05.52.mp4?dl=0

[67'7F6'Bird]

Racing my Friend Mike Michael P Mithen - Mike Tree'd me, He has been Racing for decades. Me not so much. LOL

Click the Link for the Video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hjyqzjvq2v...12.47.mp4?dl=0

[dci]

Originally Posted by 67'7F6'Bird

Hi Don,

We made it home without anything breaking.

Thank You to my Brother Ed Page, Mike Mithen & Kimberly(My Fiancee) forall your Help and Support, We all had a Great time today. It's been a few Years since I last Raced and I was very inconsistent with Shift RPM and couldn't 60' very well. We had available 28.5" Slicks and used them for consistency. My 3.50 Gears and these Big tires were not ideal, but as you all know this motor is set up for a Supercharger in the near future. I kept the RPM's to 6100 for today. The Timing was Locked out @ 31 Degrees. We are running it with Full Exhaust.

Here is the Video:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3shgymm6y...05.52.mp4?dl=0


Motor Details.
475 CI 4.35" Bore X 4.00" Stroke
8.5 to 1 Compression
251 258 .690 Lift
1050 Dominator

TH400
3500 RPM Stall

Vehicle Weight with Driver 3700 LBS

Best Time today:

11.986 ET
114.68 MPH

1.852 60 FT
330' 5.093
1/8th 7.743 ET 93.84 MPH
1000' 10.026 ET

Way to g Steve !!! Nice first outing with a new combo. I see some big improvements once you get a handle on what makes the engine happy. Just a couple of things I see. Number one is your shift point is about a 1,000 rpm to low (my 455 didn't peak until 7500), the rear gear needs to be at least a 4.10 with that tall of a tire for the rpm range of this combo, and the converter is way to low of a stall for the best et (my 455 made peak TQ at 5500). I do know though that you put this combo together for a supercharger and all those things are good for that application, but not good for a NA combo. I know you will probably correct it, but the cam actually has 270 @ .050 on the exhaust. That is another detrimental part of your combo that's hurting your ET not to mention the 8.5-1 compression with 30 degree's overlap LOL. The really cool part though is you can run 87 octane all day long and still run elevens. Still very nice results for your first time back to the track in awhile. I'm sure you had the first time jitters LOL.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by dci

Way to g Steve !!! Nice first outing with a new combo. I see some big improvements once you get a handle on what makes the engine happy. Just a couple of things I see. Number one is your shift point is about a 1,000 rpm to low (my 455 didn't peak until 7500), the rear gear needs to be at least a 4.10 with that tall of a tire for the rpm range of this combo, and the converter is way to low of a stall for the best et (my 455 made peak TQ at 5500). I do know though that you put this combo together for a supercharger and all those things are good for that application, but not good for a NA combo. I know you will probably correct it, but the cam actually has 270 @ .050 on the exhaust. That is another detrimental part of your combo that's hurting your ET not to mention the 8.5-1 compression with 30 degree's overlap LOL. The really cool part though is you can run 87 octane all day long and still run elevens. Still very nice results for your first time back to the track in awhile. I'm sure you had the first time jitters LOL.

Looks like someone needs some 26x9 slicks and a few rev-limiter modules for the next trip to the track.

[ponjohn]

Was anything special done to the shortblock to live at 7500 rpm?

[67'7F6'Bird]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Was anything special done to the shortblock to live at 7500 rpm?

MR1 Block
BME Aluminum Rods
Scat Crank 4" Stroke
Luhn OIl Pump
High Flowing Heads.
DCI Clearanced & Balanced

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by 67'7F6'Bird

MR1 Block
BME Aluminum Rods
Scat Crank 4" Stroke
Luhn OIl Pump
High Flowing Heads.
DCI Clearanced & Balanced

Do you look for a certain oil temp before street driving?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by dci

Way to g Steve !!! Nice first outing with a new combo. I see some big improvements once you get a handle on what makes the engine happy. Just a couple of things I see. Number one is your shift point is about a 1,000 rpm to low (my 455 didn't peak until 7500), the rear gear needs to be at least a 4.10 with that tall of a tire for the rpm range of this combo, and the converter is way to low of a stall for the best et (my 455 made peak TQ at 5500). I do know though that you put this combo together for a supercharger and all those things are good for that application, but not good for a NA combo. I know you will probably correct it, but the cam actually has 270 @ .050 on the exhaust. That is another detrimental part of your combo that's hurting your ET not to mention the 8.5-1 compression with 30 degree's overlap LOL. The really cool part though is you can run 87 octane all day long and still run elevens. Still very nice results for your first time back to the track in awhile. I'm sure you had the first time jitters LOL.

Don,
Even if his HP peak is at 6100 RPM (which i can not believe it is that low) and looks like the attached graph (Yes I know I left the HP and torque numbers off) He should still see almost a .25 second decrease in et by upping his shift point to 7000-7100.

Stan

[AG]

A 7100 rpm shift point seems a little high for a 251/258 cam and 8.5 CR.

[dci]

Stan, You can share the HP numbers if you want, but thanks for thinking of me. I know they are low right now, but Steve is just figuring things out and the numbers will come around. Right now my calculations say he is only making around 440 HP which is s cued because of the mis matched combo he has currently. Not to mention he is probably leaving another 100 HP on the table shifting it at 6100 instead of 7,100. I honestly think that his engine is capable of around 600 - 650 HP which is pretty dam good for what it is. I know everyone thinks because it has a RA5 head it will make 700 HP, but we need to keep reminding ourselves it only has 8.5 - 1 compression with 30 degree's overlap. We are giving up a lot of cylinder pressure which we all know is TQ and HP. It doesn't matter how much the heads flow if we cannot trap it and maximize it. That on top of the fact that to get the best ET and MPH the engine needs to stay in it's happy zone. With the current gear, tire height, and stall converter that isn't happening right now. I know Steve wants to keep the cars street manors tolerable and that's the reason he has the gear and converter he has, but I know from personal experience If the converter and gear are not optimum. The car will not et and mph to it's full potential hence appearing as if it is not making any HP. Danny Estep just proved that with his 70 GTO and my 455 RA5 pump gas engine. Before he got the converter and gear right the car only ran 9.90"s. Once Danny started to get that figured out it ran 9.10"s at and I don't remember exactly, but I think it ran almost 15 MPH faster. That was doing nothing to the engine at all, just converter and gear changes.

[dci]

Originally Posted by AG

A 7100 rpm shift point seems a little high for a 251/258 cam and 8.5 CR.

AG keep in mind port CSA has a lot to do with engine rpm too. My 455 test mule had a 250 - 259 duration cam in it and wanted 7400 rpm.

[67'7F6'Bird]

Originally Posted by AG

A 7100 rpm shift point seems a little high for a 251/258 cam and 8.5 CR.

I just noticed I typed in the wrong exhaust .05 Duration cam Spec.

Here are the specs.

Duration @ .050 int 250 Exhaust 270
Intake opens 10 BTDC, close 60 ABDC, exhaust opens 70 BBDC, closes 20 ATDC. lobe sep is 115. lobe lift intake .430, exhaust .420. 30 degree's overlap.

[AG]

What did the butt dyno tell you shifting at 6100 rpm?

[67'7F6'Bird]

Originally Posted by AG

What did the butt dyno tell you shifting at 6100 rpm?

Its definitely still pulling hard at 6100.

[Curious George]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Do you look for a certain oil temp before street driving?

From the Bill Miller Engineering website

About 30 years ago, a few resourceful engine builders, led by H-O Racing's, Ken Crocie, began using BME Rods in very-high-performance street engines. Crocie, a racing and street/strip Pontiac V8 specialist, faced with a shortage of acceptable steel rods for Pontiac V8s, began to use BME Aluminum Rods in some engine builds. While, since then, other engine builders followed Crocie's lead, admittedly, use of the Bill Miller Engineering Rod in street engines has not been widespread?but that's only because of the stubborn belief that any aluminum rod is unsuitable for street use.

"In a hot street application, using the aluminum rod is a no brainer," BME President, Bill Miller, said in an interview with an automotive magazine. "I don't know how the myth that aluminum rods can't be used on the street got started, but I'll guess that, back in the 60s and early-70s, they weren't making them using the process we're using today. With the material we've got and they way we manufacture the connecting rods, they'll live a couple hundred thousand miles on the street because a street application is, for the most part, low load. Our basic Aluminum Rod is made for an 1000-hp, 10,000 rpm race engine. The design criteria for the connecting rod is way overkill for what it's going see on the street. We been running aluminum rods on the street for more than two decades."

Why build a street engine with BME Rods? One reason is the "cool factor." Bill Miller Engineering Rods are unique, high-end racing parts and there always will be people who spend extra money to have the same rods in their engines as John Force puts in his. More importantly, there are practical reasons for using BME Rods?the same reasons racers use them: less reciprocating and rotating mass due to their comparative lightness. That allows the engine to accelerate quicker. Lighter rods also improve throttle response and allow the engine to run reliably at a higher rpm than it could with steel rods.

You do a few things differently when setting-up a street engine for BME Rods. Minimum bearing clearance at room temperature should be .002-.0025-in. Wrist pin clearance should be .0006-.0008-in. Rod side clearance should be .020-in. The engine's oiling system needs to be appropriate for a racing application with larger rod bearing clearances once the oil reaches operating temperature. The oiling system must be configured to provide 10 psi, hot oil pressure for every 1000 rpm in the engine's rpm range. The minimum acceptable oil is a premium, 10W30 synthetic and Bill Miller Engineering recommends Red Line 10W30 Engine Oil. Engines with BME Aluminum Rods must not be run at high load or high rpm until oil temperature reaches at least 130 deg. F. Lastly, while Red Line oil lubricates reliably at oil temperatures up to 300 deg. F, the recommended oil temperature for an engine using BME Rods is 160-200? F.


Standard BME Forged Aluminum Connecting Rods for most production Chevrolet, Chrysler and Pontiac V8s are reliable replacements for steel connecting rods in engines of up to 1000 horsepower. Aluminum Rods for some Ford V8s of similar power output are available on special order. A Big-Block Chevrolet style, Pro Stock rod, good to 1500-hp, is, also, available. If the application is a Chrysler 426 Hemi or big-block "wedge", BME's blown-alcohol rods can be used at levels well over 4000-hp with outstanding reliability/durability

[dci]

Originally Posted by Curious George

From the Bill Miller Engineering website

About 30 years ago, a few resourceful engine builders, led by H-O Racing's, Ken Crocie, began using BME Rods in very-high-performance street engines. Crocie, a racing and street/strip Pontiac V8 specialist, faced with a shortage of acceptable steel rods for Pontiac V8s, began to use BME Aluminum Rods in some engine builds. While, since then, other engine builders followed Crocie's lead, admittedly, use of the Bill Miller Engineering Rod in street engines has not been widespread?but that's only because of the stubborn belief that any aluminum rod is unsuitable for street use.

"In a hot street application, using the aluminum rod is a no brainer," BME President, Bill Miller, said in an interview with an automotive magazine. "I don't know how the myth that aluminum rods can't be used on the street got started, but I'll guess that, back in the 60s and early-70s, they weren't making them using the process we're using today. With the material we've got and they way we manufacture the connecting rods, they'll live a couple hundred thousand miles on the street because a street application is, for the most part, low load. Our basic Aluminum Rod is made for an 1000-hp, 10,000 rpm race engine. The design criteria for the connecting rod is way overkill for what it's going see on the street. We been running aluminum rods on the street for more than two decades."

Why build a street engine with BME Rods? One reason is the "cool factor." Bill Miller Engineering Rods are unique, high-end racing parts and there always will be people who spend extra money to have the same rods in their engines as John Force puts in his. More importantly, there are practical reasons for using BME Rods?the same reasons racers use them: less reciprocating and rotating mass due to their comparative lightness. That allows the engine to accelerate quicker. Lighter rods also improve throttle response and allow the engine to run reliably at a higher rpm than it could with steel rods.

You do a few things differently when setting-up a street engine for BME Rods. Minimum bearing clearance at room temperature should be .002-.0025-in. Wrist pin clearance should be .0006-.0008-in. Rod side clearance should be .020-in. The engine's oiling system needs to be appropriate for a racing application with larger rod bearing clearances once the oil reaches operating temperature. The oiling system must be configured to provide 10 psi, hot oil pressure for every 1000 rpm in the engine's rpm range. The minimum acceptable oil is a premium, 10W30 synthetic and Bill Miller Engineering recommends Red Line 10W30 Engine Oil. Engines with BME Aluminum Rods must not be run at high load or high rpm until oil temperature reaches at least 130 deg. F. Lastly, while Red Line oil lubricates reliably at oil temperatures up to 300 deg. F, the recommended oil temperature for an engine using BME Rods is 160-200? F.


Standard BME Forged Aluminum Connecting Rods for most production Chevrolet, Chrysler and Pontiac V8s are reliable replacements for steel connecting rods in engines of up to 1000 horsepower. Aluminum Rods for some Ford V8s of similar power output are available on special order. A Big-Block Chevrolet style, Pro Stock rod, good to 1500-hp, is, also, available. If the application is a Chrysler 426 Hemi or big-block "wedge", BME's blown-alcohol rods can be used at levels well over 4000-hp with outstanding reliability/durability

Thanks for sharing this. I have been telling my clients this for years, but they are still apprehensive. I have one client that has close to 100,000 miles on his rods now. I built that engine for him back in the 80's and he use's it for a daily driver in the summer months highway and in town. It's a 455 too not a 400.

[tom s]

I have used the BME rods in 2 street engines with no issue at all.Tom