[Elarson]

Originally Posted by Travis Q

A lot of it boils down to money. It would take a big investment that neither me or Rodney have to do something different. But, if we had a Chevrolet, we could build a much better engine for the same money as is invested in what we have now. We're dummies for doing it, basically.

Name me one "higher flowing" set of PROVEN billet or solid cast aluminum heads that has been used successfully on a Pontiac - no valvetrain issues, no soft castings, no heads cracking into pieces when you turn the power up. I'll do it for you - THERE ARENT ANY. And we don't fall into the "top level" category, so we can't afford to be guinea pigs.

As for the 5-7 racers, I would say:

Eric & Mike in the nitro funny car
Bill Mellott
the Kauffmann P/S car
Lil Jack, with the new heads
the Picketts

Travis, you're unnecessarily humble to leave yourself and Rodney off that list. Who broke the barrier into the low 6's and who held that record for a long time with ingenius ideas and a modest budget?

JMHO,
Eric

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by Travis Q

And to add to Curt's post, I have no idea why the division in the Pontiac community. It is truly baffling to me. If anything, as small as the group is, Pontiac enthusiasts should be pulling together. Now, I understand that there are sometimes differences of opinions, or feathers get ruffled, but that's really not what I'm referring to.

On that note, it's worthy of mention that Mike and I have endeavored to maintain cordial, respectful relations with everyone in the Pontiac community. Our projects do not exist in a bubble. We have drawn ideas and inspirations from all sides of the warring factions. To "pick sides" is to hobble your program.

FWIW,
Eric

[Travis Q]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Where else would the HP come from?

With better flowing heads, one could use better camshaft, thus more HP?
Which goes to needing the better induction setup, the better engine components to use the higher RPM/HP?

If the car is holding the performance back, that has nothing to do with the Pontiac engine?

I've been over this a million times, use the search function.

Boost is where it comes from. Problem is, when boost goes up, so do requirements in the cylinder head (that have NOTHING TO DO WITH FLOW).....

Current leader-of-the-pack turbo engines are at 65 psi, into 572 inches, at 9200 rpm.

[S/st 54]

FWIW Travis,I wouldn't hesitate to throw both of Curts cars on the lists.....I know most folks don't like the whole throttle stop racing but his S/G car is is VERY! IMPRESSIVE!170mph@9.90 is freaking AWESOME!!!!!.....of coarse ya gota put his GTO in that group too......I'd also throw Langer in that bunch. I've never met the guy but I respect and wanna thank him for what he's done .......it's programs like Langers IMO that helps other racers out in the long run.

And Travis you goofball! You guys are awesome! Y'all should be on that list!

[johnta1]

As for the 5-7 racers, I would say:

Eric & Mike in the nitro funny car
Bill Mellott
the Kauffmann P/S car
Lil Jack, with the new heads
the Picketts

No Scott Rex?
Or at one time Jack Gaydosh?

I'd say Scott has done a lot for the Pontiac community.
Lil Jack? He hasn't done anything yet except buy a set of heads?
Other guys have bought as good of a set of heads, if possibly not better.

Jeff Kauffman's dragster not on there?

JCYou's head sounds like it's making going to make a ton of power?

Have you talked to Kauffman's about their Hemi head or going by the usual crap spewed on these boards?

This is probably the crux of the problem.

One listens to a few people and don't try to get the real facts or try the new products to see if they actually work.

This is easily $100,000 worth of equipment. In a year. If you're talking nitrous engines, double that figure.

A lot of it boils down to money. It would take a big investment that neither me or Rodney have to do something different. But, if we had a Chevrolet, we could build a much better engine for the same money as is invested in what we have now.

So they spent $100,000 to make their HP, but you could do it for less using their engines?

If one of them spent $100,000 on our Pontiacs they could make Pontiac as fast?



I really doubt money buys all this HP.
Being dedicated to finding this HP is what drives most to do this.

If one doesn't take chances on doing things no one else has done, we'll always be 'stagnant'.

One can't listen to these guys that say this head won't run or why hasn't it ran a '7' yet.
Or if one is waiting for someone else to do the R&D and spend the money so they can just bolt it on, we'll stay 'stagnant'.

The Kauffman's provided probably the best head made for Pontiac, and because of some 'petty' things, a lot of people won't have anything to do with it.
That's being 'stagnant'.

The CV1 and probably CV2 heads were basically killed in infancy by these same 'petty' people.

Looks like the same for the RAV head of Lynn M.

Even though the Visner head is basically a knock off of the Warp6 hopefully it will get some builds.
(since the main complainers of the Warp6 won't have to complain about the Visner it probably will)

[cptinjak]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Even though the Visner head is basically a knock off of the Warp6 hopefully it will get some builds.

Not sure what you're referring to there. Care to elaborate?

Jack

[johnta1]

Not sure what you're referring to there. Care to elaborate?

Jack

You 1st?

[cptinjak]

Originally Posted by johnta1

You 1st?

I was just wondering what you based your statement on. I do not believe we have ever had one of those heads in the shop, so I would not call ours a copy.

Jack

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Curt, What did you mean by that?

Simply ment that I new my post was bound to start more arguments and or controversy --

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Simply ment that I new my post was bound to start more arguments and or controversy --

"...arguments and controversy"?

Here?

On the PY Race Forum?

Really?

I never noticed the drama.

[cgeise]

Thanks all for you participation here -- I'd like to add some things after seeing some of your responses.

I dont think you could find a post of me bashing a CV- 1 or 2 or whatever there called today, but what seems to have gotten under more than a few peoples skin is all the chest beating about the head -- and no real results to back it up. Some of its proponents really went over board touting how great it was or would be and at the same time telling all the other camps how the CV would kick there ass -- Over exuberance befor facts really hurt that deal -- IMO.

JOHN -- I dont - and many dont consider what KRE did a "petty" thing -- When a company drags someone to court -- based on the issues as I know them -- then that company better know the ramifications of what they do. I suspect finacially it was a huge step backwards for them in the way potencial customers view them.

I have a lot of respect for Travis -- read between the lines on his comment about some of the product out there -- do you want to be the one buying that stuff only to find out it has "issues"????

There is a huge difference between spending hard earned money to "advance and innovate" and paying for the Manufactures R&D -- just to make it work, and hopefully stay together.

And just to be clear here -- It would be way better for us all if we could look at all products with the same colored glass's -- I have a lot of AP product -- some is outstanding -- some of it has had its own issues, I have no problem disscusing those. But I do see some "camps" being ultra defensive as if there people were perfect -- lets be honest these comments here about product problems just dont appear out of thin air, there is usually a basis for fact as the reason for the comment. Why not listen, do some investigation and learn.

[warriors revenge]

I just want to say that i am thankful for EVERYONE who has entered the Aftermarket Pontiac engine parts business/hobby.... it seems like the factory round ports were the best heads we had forever, then Wenzlers came out, and could have been amazing (except for the various issues) then the E-heads came out... game changer!! now there are sooooo many head options, good blocks, good cranks, etc.... with out you guys the Pontiac engine in any form of competitive racing (except bracket racing) would have become extinct.... true story! if you don't like a part that is being made, or that someone is trying to make, DON'T BUY IT!! but don't talk chit about this and that when everyones common goal is for a Pontiac engine to be competitive and make as much power as possible (whatever it looks like, or how far the pistons are from each other).... bottom line is innovation is the key to our game.... YES that takes money and support... nobody makes any Pontiac parts with the expectation to sell 1,000,000 units of anything "A house divided against itself cannot stand" Abe Lincoln
have a great day.... go do something to make your Pontiac better!

[johnta1]

I was just wondering what you based your statement on. I do not believe we have ever had one of those heads in the shop, so I would not call ours a copy.

Jack

Not an exact copy.

KRE had their Warp6 out (in billet like yours) for what 6 years?
They started casting them for what 2 years?

They designed, modified, researched, and tested them for about as long.

Most of these guys "poo-poo'd" them and basically tried to get them to go under.

Then you CNC a set of canted valve heads and they think it is fantastic.

Just sad they would do this to a Pontiac vendor and Pontiac innovators just because of a 'grudge'.

[johnta1]

When a company drags someone to court -- based on the issues as I know them

I would be real happy to hear your "facts".

They seem to differ from mine.

[cptinjak]

We had no prior knowledge of the Kre heads when ours was designed. A customer wrote a check for the baddest set of heads he could possibly bolt to a pontiac block, so that is what we made him. We translated our pro stock designs over to fit the pontiac lifter locations as best we could, and started machining.

We spoke with the Kauffmans at PRI for quite a while. They were nice guys, seemed very supportive of what we were doing, and wished us luck with our heads. We are not trying to copy or steal business from anyone here, just making power for the people that pay us to do so.

Jack

[johnta1]

Hope you have good luck with your head.

A customer wrote a check for the baddest set of heads he could possibly bolt to a pontiac block, so that is what we made him.

Was this Jack or Gary Cygan?

Hopefully they won't go bragging about them.
(or they'll be like the CVwhat crowd)

[cptinjak]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Hope you have good luck with your head.





Was this Jack or Gary Cygan?

Hopefully they won't go bragging about them.
(or they'll be like the CVwhat crowd)

The set we originally did for Gary was a conventional layout, inline valve head. So we were quite limited on what we could do with those. Jack was the motivation for the new head.

Jack

[STALLION]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Not an exact copy.

KRE had their Warp6 out (in billet like yours) for what 6 years?
They started casting them for what 2 years?

They designed, modified, researched, and tested them for about as long.

Most of these guys "poo-poo'd" them and basically tried to get them to go under.

Then you CNC a set of canted valve heads and they think it is fantastic.

Just sad they would do this to a Pontiac vendor and Pontiac innovators just because of a 'grudge'.

John, I like you but you are so brain washed.
What "grudge" , what guys "poo-poo'd" the Wrap6 and who tried to get them (KRE) to go under.
You can't buy a set of Warp6 if the vendor will not SELL them to you just because you know or talk to someone they(KRE) does not like.
The first set of Warp6 heads on a NA application was to be on my car just like the first all Aluminum NA motor went in my car.
John, the "just sad" part of all this bitterness out there towards KRE is mostly self inflicted by 1 member of KRE.
Maurice

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Travis Q

A lot of it boils down to money. It would take a big investment that neither me or Rodney have to do something different. But, if we had a Chevrolet, we could build a much better engine for the same money as is invested in what we have now. We're dummies for doing it, basically.

Name me one "higher flowing" set of PROVEN billet or solid cast aluminum heads that has been used successfully on a Pontiac - no valvetrain issues, no soft castings, no heads cracking into pieces when you turn the power up. I'll do it for you - THERE ARENT ANY. And we don't fall into the "top level" category, so we can't afford to be guinea pigs.

As for the 5-7 racers, I would say:

Eric & Mike in the nitro funny car
Bill Mellott
the Kauffmann P/S car
Lil Jack, with the new heads
the Picketts

I am very humbled to even be mentioned in the same breath as some of the top guys in the Pontiac world. There are a lot of great Pontiac guys I looked up to when I was younger who inspired me and have paved the way for Pontiac greatness to come. I hope I can do just a small part to move in forward!


Rodney and Travis are at the top of the list in my opinion.

[David Holmberg]

Originally Posted by cptinjak

The set we originally did for Gary was a conventional layout, inline valve head. So we were quite limited on what we could do with those. Jack was the motivation for the new head.

Jack

And add in Gary's ET with limited testing was outstanding!