#61  
Old 06-22-2020, 11:28 AM
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73LeMans 73LeMans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X24SPD View Post
Hey Mark, your stuff is looking real good.
I'll look forward to seeing how it runs.
NED street nights are opening back up this week.
Let me know when you're ready to come up, I'll tech your car through.
-Bill
Bill - This is really appreciated man. Thank you. It helps when a trained eye says good things. And a fellow Pontiac man to boot.

I'll likely be aiming at October for some track time. Usually a Wednesday track rental works best for me if you work those, (and they still happen given the condensed schedule) Good air in Oct and it gives me some time to work out the minor kinks. I will definitely let you know when I'm heading that way.

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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
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So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #62  
Old 06-24-2020, 08:50 PM
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I appreciate AutoMeter wants to step up their game, but when you just get done deliberately trying to get rid of the red/blue fittings under the hood and this arrives, its a tad annoying.



No big deal. I'll use the nickel plated piece I was using last time, so the red piece can go. Stupid blue piece.

As is typical, the gauge is no longer metal. All plastic. I just look on the bright side and think about how much lighter the car is.



Just a quick update on the Fuel Pump Controller - I connected two 10 GA wire leads directly from the battery to the FPSC and ran the car. The Full light flashed less frequently. Maybe 10x per min. Best Ive seen yet, but it still shut the car down. Per Tech advice, I then jumped out the ign/pwr on the controller to the bat terminal on the controller, still leaving the 2 10 GA directly connected to the battery. The frequency of the full light flash was worse than ever before...maybe 30x a min. I didn't leave the car running long enough to have it shut down, but I imagine it would have.

Next up is to isolate the tach wire from the MSD from other wires under the dash, and to try and shield it. If any one has use of a good product here, let me know. I just picked up some Electriduct 1/4" Tinned Copper Metal Braid Flexible Shielding Wire Mesh. Supposed to be a good guard for EMI/RFI.


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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #63  
Old 07-13-2020, 01:03 AM
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Default FPSC issues resolved?

You may have seen my post in the Street forum on this, but just in case you didn't, here is an update the Fuel Pump Speed Controller. Calling it semi resolved is the best way to term it. Here is what was done -

I grounded the shielded wire using a shield bond connector.



I also created an EMI filter as instructed per Aeromotive Tech Bulletin #302. I soldered it inline with the MSD tach signal as instructed, yet it seemed to make no difference. I made a video so I could show ya (Fun Fact! The video was originally 15 seconds long, but the last 3 seconds were the beginning of an obscenity laden rant I thought was better left out)

FPSC video
https://youtu.be/w2nMspJQ9_8


Here the weird part. Obviously something changed, I just don't know what, but subsequent idling of the engine a few hours later produced a much cleaner signal than what the video shows. Its not 100%, but way better than what the video shows. (Full light only flashed about once every 15 seconds!!) What changed in that time frame:

--I removed the direct power and ground feeds from the battery to the controller and returned to using the ones I originally had on my new electrical board and fuse panel.

-- The shielded wire for this test recall, was run outside of the glove box, (where the MSD resides), to isolate it from the other wires. I took it back though the side of the glove box with the rest of the wires as it had been initially.

That's it. Both of these actions should have had an adverse affect on my signal, not a favorable one, so once again I'm at a loss for whats going on. Maybe it gets worse? Maybe it gets better? I don't really know. What I do know is there is a controller bypass switch wired in so it wont ever leave me stranded. (and there's the jinx)

I'm leaning toward my ancient MSD being the root cause. Either its a dirty signal because its just old, or maybe the signal isn't exactly what this FPSC was tested against or expecting. Either way, its now in the past and I'm done thinking about it. What a relief. Stupid electronics....

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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #64  
Old 07-17-2020, 01:35 AM
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Default front sway bar

I debated on sharing this. In the interest of full disclosure I decided its part of the build up and should have its place here. There's no real shame other than its the lazy way out and the fix isn't up to my usual standard. There is no compromise to safety.

On the street, I run a 1.25" ADDCO front sway bar.


In my tenure as custodian of this vehicle, nothing has made this car feel more like a modern car than this piece. The dodging, dipping, diving, ducking and dodging (cmon, you gotta know that movie!) into turns was all solved with this bar. Its heavy, (21.76lbs heavy) but it completely transforms the front end behavior on the street. I love it. Not like swimming in raw sewage love it, but I love it nonetheless. (Anyone?)

For the track, I take it off the car completely. I mention this to let you know there is a lot of opportunity for the small 3/8 bolts to strip out, especially if one uses the tightening of those small 3/8 bolts to help draw up the bar when putting it back on the car. (did I mention it was heavy?) Do that enough times with the 2 threads of engagement the factory frame gives you and you get the idea. One of the 4 holes was stripped and I gotta fix it.

To aid in stripping of the threads, please note the following:

The small 3/8 bolts present an issue. Without washers, they could potentially slip through the large hole in the bracket holding the bar to the car. Easy enough to fix right? Pop a washer in there and you're good to go. Not really....

Probably more easily solved with a smaller O.D. SAE washer, when you don't have them, you make do. As such, in order for bolts to line up properly with their respective threads, you gotta make sure the washers chosen don't interfere with the bracket. Grind in a flat side if you gotta, but make sure you grind enough, or else this happens:



Don't grind too much though, or else youll discover how quickly those washers twist out on tighten when the bolt hole has been breached.

The other problem is that because this bar is bigger than the biggest factory bar, perfect bolt alignment is difficult to get on a good day. The bar, the bushing and the bracket take up so much space, one bolt on each side is usually pointing at some sort of angle to engage. (The pic above is a combination of both problems rearing their head)

"Bar"ring any more excuses of why its stripped, lets get on with the fix.


I swear, when I measured the threads on the bolt I took out, it was 7/16 with a 16 pitch. Now, where is that tap.... this kit? This kit? This kit? Oh wait....that's not a normal tap, is it? Nope. 7/16-14 is normal coarse threading and 7/16-20 is normal fine threading, but no 16. Hmm.. looks like I gotta special order a tap. %^$

I found one, and only one, online on a site called DrillsandCutters.com. I didn't buy it right away because I never heard of the place, and ya know, my identity is kinda important to me. I figured a local search would definitely turn one up anyway, but I was less than right on that call. (some might say wrong). Even the best hardware stores around (Think Truevalue, ACE etc) didn't carry them. Then the pandemic hit.

Fine - lets take a chance on the unheard of site. (great experience btw!)

When I got the tap, it didn't fit in the way I expected. As a matter of fact, I couldn't even get it started. WTF?

I gotta mechanic buddy - one of his favorite sayings is brute force and ignorance always overcomes fear and common sense. I told him about the issues Ive been having with the fitment so he decided to help out. He takes the tap, goes under the car and sure enough, got it to fit.

Son of a .... . Am I that far out mechanic shape I cant start a friggin tap?? I must be losing my mind faster than I thought. Then it hit me. (Taking the 3/8 bolt and seeing it get lost in the 7/16 hole helped too). I bought the wrong tap.

Well, #$^. I really am losing my mind.

Yup, 3/8 bolt. 7/16 tap. Rookie mistake. Lets not dwell on it.


On the bright maybe now a regular 7/16-14 tap will work? Yeah, right.

Ugh, filling, welding, grinding, drilling, taping and painting isn't really something I want to do at this juncture! I'm this far away from driving this thing!!! [ ] I cant spend time messing with this crap! But I really want that bar in there.

Go big or stay home, right? Enter, stage right, the 1/2" bolt. (socket cap technically)





And with the proper tap this time, I present you the ugly fix with terrible lighting -



The bracket you can see, hangs off the frame a tad here. I'll correct that because I will likely catch something (skin, clothes, gloves) on that about 1,652 times until I remember its there.

Will anyone ever see this ugly ass oversized bolt? No.
Will I know its there? Yes.
Will it bother me until they are all the same size? Yes.
Will I be taking the time to change them all out anytime soon? Very unlikely.

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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #65  
Old 08-17-2020, 11:45 PM
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Just a quick update on this. I'm disappointed I have no street time to show for all this work. I fully expected to be editing and posting GoPro footage by now like all the cool kids, but I took some time off for a few reasons -

- help sister move to new home
- help get moms house of 55 years on the market
- keep from purposely lighting this friggin car on fire
- no AC in the garage - thermo been sayin 88...for weeks....is that bad?


What lefts to do?

- Square away brakes.
- Figure out why all my mechanical advance isn't coming in
- Figure out why there is a ton of blue smoke coming out the pipe when it revs

- That Wilwood MC is, as the internet told me it would be, a royal PITA to bleed. The stock Motive Power Bleeder plate isn't big enough. I had to get a bigger plate to cover the length of the oval master. (P/N 1115). It arrived of course with a hole in the hose. It was returned for a replacement, but Summit decided to credit my card instead. I borrowed one from a friend and even though I moved a 1/2 gallon of fluid out the rear brakes, they still feel like there is air trapped in the system. I did bench bleed the MC, now I'm wondering if it was enough.

- The mechanical advance is made up of the same springs and plates I used the last time I successfully ran the car. The dizzy is not binding up; all seems to move freely. I'm just not getting the 29 total degrees I'm looking for at 3000. I'm getting 20 and nothing more. I'll replace the medium spring with a light one and see if anything changes. If that doesn't help, I may shoot myself with the timing gun. (just a joke).

- The blue smoke out the pipe is the least of my worries, but its still a worry. I'm not going to focus on it yet, but its creeping into my mind it may be an issue I need to address. While no street time, the engine has about 90 minutes worth of run time on it. It should be clearing up. Valve seals are new....but man, its a ton of smoke. Not good, Mav.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffin glue.

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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #66  
Old 12-10-2020, 01:08 AM
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Default 3, 2, 1, Ignition - Houston, we have a problem

I know you wouldn't know it, (because I haven't told you) but for 2+ months I've been wrestling with my HEI trying to dial it in. I finally gave up and sent it to a professional (heretofore known as "The Distributor Guy") who has a Distributor Testing machine, the proper know-how to figure out why my advance isn't fully coming in and an S TON more patience than me.

This post will be one of those "what not to do" type posts. You'll see why.

You know what is apparently being added to the latest list of unobtanium? Genuine GM HEI advance weights. Maybe I'm late to the party and they've been off the market for years, but I'll tell ya, there are none on this forum, and none in any of the 20 GM groups I'm in on Facebook. Pretty astounding considering the amount that were made available from the factory and the amount of people these social sites reach.

Don't get me wrong, the journey has been interesting - got a chance to talk to Rocky Rotella on weight and curves. (If you don't know the name, you're probably fuel injected. ) Man, what a nice guy!! But still no weights.

Got a few folks that said they could help - even willing to go with 139 weights - but I must have ticked them off or something, because they ghosted me in short order. I guess I have a way of doing that.

Enough about that. Lets get to the reason you're all here. My awesome photography.


My big cap HEI is really just a distributor of spark - the 6al does all of the heavy lifting; the dizzy just tells it where to go. No modules lefts to fry, it was strictly the magnetic pickup and the advance mechanism. Simple. Years ago my Distributor Guy even made an advance bushing to limit the curve and dialed it in perfectly, even with the crappy curve kit I had in it.



But if you read any dizzy threads at all, they all have one thing in common - the aftermarket weights and cams are junk. Its true more so today than ever before. Most serious curve guys buy for the springs and throw the rest away.


Whats wrong with my distributor? I don't really know to be honest. All I know is it limits me to half the advance Id expect to see regardless if I use new weights, or the old proven good ones. Yup, all greased, spins freely, shimmed identically as before and doesn't feel odd in any way. Oh, and it ate a bronze gear in 90 minutes of run time.....



....and put a ton of carbon under the rotor in the same timeframe. Yup, I said 90 minutes.



Something ain't right Scoob. Maybe the shaft bent when I dropped that roller lifter waaaay back at the front of this thread? Remember, that oil pump got pretty hot.

So given there are apparently no genuine GM weights left in the world, and my dizzy has gone off to the great carousel of spark in the sky, what options exist before one goes completely fuel injected?


Another Dizzy or a Crank Trigger.


You know, I tried to buy a distributor to make my life easy, maybe get me running this year, but of course, MSD no longer sells a Pontiac HEI distributor. Very annoying.

Since my mantra has always been to upgrade when a part breaks, I figured the crank trigger would give me the most flexibility going forward - either in a switch to FI or just making more power and requiring more stable spark. Take that advance weights!!! Try and squeeze me, huh? I'll show ya.

I had the trigger delivered to see if I could mount the wheel to my old Fluidamper. MSD support isn't allowed to share tech drawings (go figure) and at the same time, couldn't tell me the exact size of the center hole so I had to find out myself. I thought my biggest battle was won when I unpacked and found a removable center allowing the wheel to register on different dampers. Well played MSD.



When it all bolted together perfectly with my odd Fluidamper 4 bolt 3.3" bolt circle, I thought I was in the clear. (seems like a good timing pun could be used here, doesn't it?)



Yeah, no.

I now know what the phrase I've read on this board so many times actually means, at least partially: "I've gotten an MSD crank trigger modified to work on the Pontiac". I was hoping those were old statements said against old versions of the part and any "issue" that needed correcting was done with future iterations. Wrong again I was.

For those that aren't familiar (and I'm likely the last to ever attempt this because there are far more modern ways to get accurate ignition timing today) here is a rundown of "the problem" Ive got with the trigger. If you're looking for a solution, I will let you down.

If you're running a 4 bolt damper, such as the Fluidamper, the likelihood one of the 4 magnets in the wheel aligning with the pickup is slim. Take a look.



This picture is with total timing at 29 degrees BTDC. As you can see, there is no aligning the two, at least not at 29 degrees. (The pickup is at the end of its upward travel). I didn't measure, but it looks to be about 10, perhaps 12 degrees off, so its basically sitting at a starting point of 40 lets say, with no option but to advance more.

You see, MSD instructs one to find TDC on #1 on compression stroke, set engine for the total desired timing, align magnet with the center of the non-magnetic pickup and attach the wheel. Maybe with a 3 bolt damper you can get a magnet to align with the pickup somewhere on the slider, but not when the damper is using 4 bolts. The bolt circle and the magnets have the same relationship. (do not believe the MSD tech thread that says this trigger will work with 4 bolt balancers. Not without extensive modification it wont)

Rotating the wheel to the next spot it bolts to the damper, yields the following:



And because the slider can only travel up in this photo, that would no nothing but retard timing starting at 29 and continuing downward.

Yeah, I could modify the slider to work - this is hot rodding after all. There is a lot of material on the adjuster I could mill to get more travel, but I'm just not that sure I want to go this route just yet, especially since I'm likely to have to buy a new dizzy anyway.

Back it goes.

I'll talk to my Distributor Guy - Maybe a DUI is in my future.

More news as it becomes news.

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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #67  
Old 12-14-2020, 08:25 AM
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77 Canamman 77 Canamman is offline
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Per my parts manuals, GM, at least back in the '70's did not sell weights and springs separately. They sold the entire shaft assembly as a service part. Here is an example for a Chevy HEI:


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  #68  
Old 12-14-2020, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77 Canamman View Post
Per my parts manuals, GM, at least back in the '70's did not sell weights and springs separately. They sold the entire shaft assembly as a service part. Here is an example for a Chevy HE

Makes sense selling it as a unit from their perspective I suppose. They made sure the ignition curve was right on the assembly line and out it went. Optimizing the curve was up to the hot rodder to make happen. It does beg the question of how one got the right curve back if the distributor ended up being replaced at some point though, doesn't it?

I'm just bummed that with the approximate 7M Pontiacs produced between 74 and 83, most all HEI equipped, (the heyday of HEI?) I thought cams and weights would have been easier to come by. Kind of a ridiculous expectation I suppose considering that was 37 years ago and no one really hoarded the GM stuff until the computers started taking over and the curve kits went to pot.

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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread

Last edited by 73LeMans; 12-14-2020 at 07:57 PM.
  #69  
Old 01-19-2021, 08:21 PM
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Default Timing is everything... and the Pontiac communuity is awesome

Apparently, I've been posting to my FB groups all wrong. My posts go out too late and by the time the majority of folks would likely see them the next day, I'm guessing they are buried. (the posts, not the people). Its also very possible, probable even, everyone is tired of me whining about not having any advance weights and decided to shut me up. I don't know. Regardless, Ive decided to use a new tactic >>> Posting to FB groups in the middle of a holiday.

Results are in. It seems that was a good idea. Posting with a "pic for attention" helped out too. (I'm just glad it was a pic of my actual car. I get annoyed when its a pic someone steals and knows nothing about - anyone else?) My last ditch, desperate effort to find some gen-u-ine GM advance weights paid off in spades. Well, in weights actually. It was worth the weight. (Too soon? Yeah, my timing is a tad off)



Just when you think all hope in humanity is lost, (which is often for me) folks step up. (I'd love to mention names, but some folks don't take too kindly to the attention, so I'll leave the names out)

One member stepped up and sent me 045 weights for no money...not even shipping. Seriously?? People still do this?

Another gave me a killer deal on a complete HEI, HE or I (get it? He, I = HEI?) couldn't refuse. The deal yielded not one, but two sets of 045 weights, some 139s and a few centercams. (2 364s and 452) along with a bag of other parts.

And to make sure I had some additional cores, I bought two more complete HEIs from a friend in western MA for less than the cost of gas to get there. Notice the GM module is still in one of them. (He had a unitized setup on the wall I was tempted to buy..I hadnt s)

I sent pair of 045s to the "distributor guy". Surprisingly, the guy at the Post Office actually knew what they were. That "sparked" a conversation about his 72 Z28 for a good 30 minutes~!

When said distributor guy is done, I'll "advance" this thread with results.

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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
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So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #70  
Old 01-19-2021, 10:54 PM
cdrookie cdrookie is offline
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Timing can be a strange thing, whether it's a post or .....



Eh, sounded more clever in my mind.

  #71  
Old 01-20-2021, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Eh, sounded more clever in my mind.
Happens to me all the time!

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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #72  
Old 01-20-2021, 10:33 AM
cdrookie cdrookie is offline
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Timing is everything!

Might be better, but my timing is an little off

  #73  
Old 01-21-2021, 02:02 AM
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Default And boredom takes over.....

As I wait out the excruciating days for my beloved distributor to return, (I'll never take a vacation without it again!) I struggle to find something to do. Things happen very s l o w l y when there is nothing to do.

I could start cataloguing my dads train collection, but the idea of documenting a few thousand pieces only to find out that ship has sailed in terms of value, doesn't seem very appealing, especially since I don't plan on selling them anyway. They can wait.

Then I remembered a few posts on NHRA seats I recently saw that caught my eye. (figuratively)

NHRA 2021: General Regulations - 6:2 Upholstery, Seats
The drivers seat of any car in competition must be constructed, braced mounted and upholstered to provide full back and shoulder support. The driver's seat must be supported on the bottom and back by the frame or cross member. Except as noted in SFI Specifications, seats must be bolted with four bolts (and nuts and washers) on the bottom and one bolt in the rear into crossbar; all bolts must go through frame or cross braces.


That means I need to buy one of these -



Note the item below that makes it Kirkey seat specific.



It sits right up against the seat spine.



Paint 2x because the top coat didn't stick, and install.



Don't forget the bolts. (Hope these don't hurt.)




__________________
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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #74  
Old 01-30-2021, 09:41 PM
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Default This couldnt have taken any longer if I tried.

My HEI is a tad misshapen.

(picture courtesy of Distributor Guy)

This means another housing needs to be sent to said Distributor Guy ASAP. Not sure what happened, but it happened well before I got my hands on it. Its been like that since '97 and has been through 3 major engine iterations. Im sure its fine, but with other housings now standing by, its probably prudent to replace.

Of the 3 available, I'm going with this '77 unit out of a YU coded 400. (Thanks Wallace Racing Distributor page!) Its the oldest of the bunch but its housing is in better shape and its the quickest to ready for paint. (I can't deal with the silver. Great for a resto, but not for me.)




Also sending these parts along, just in case my shaft is bent. They cleaned up nice with a brass wire brush.



This is better!




It'll all be happily on its way on Monday along with some center cams.


Performing a leakdown test on the engine tomorrow just to give me something to do while its down. Hopefully this will guide me to which cylinder(s) are allowing the engine to smoke. I'm still going on the notion the rings haven't seated, but at least I can see if the cylinders are consistent. I'll post those results when I have them figured out.

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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #75  
Old 02-15-2021, 12:11 AM
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Default Leakdown

I was hoping to have the ignition fixed by now, but this whole Covid thing "zapped" any schedule I thought reasonable. With all this down time, I gotta tackle things where I can, so onward we go.

Smokey (no Bandit) exhaust - lets dive in and see whats happening

Besides the smokey exhaust, there is another indicator right under my nose telling me this engine isn't as tightly sealed as it should be. Its the vacuum pump. Its only generating about 3" in of Hg at 6k rpm and considerably less at idle. (like ZERO) In speaking with GZ Motorsports (awesome tech support BTW) I'm told if everything is sealed and in good condition, I should see 3-5" Hg at idle, and 12-14" at 6000 rpm. Since I'm no where near those numbers, I have to wonder (and I have been) why the pump inst getting a good seal. I know the pump is good. It comes with its own dyno sheet. So, looks like its time for a leak-down test.

Full disclosure - I've never done a leak down test before. Never had to. I'm not a mechanic by trade plus all my engine builds have gone exactly as I expected them to. This is the first one to smoke. I'm so new to leak-downs, I don't even have any good puns about them and that really feels like a lost opportunity. On the bright side, I get to learn something new. Lets start with a tip.


================================================== ================================================== =
Tip#17 - If you perform a leak down test and everything comes up perfectly at zero, make sure you've taken the Schrader valve out of the inlet tube you're using to pressurize the cylinder. Air enters the engine better that way. Stupid valve.


================================================== =============================================



BTW, there is no neat YT video for the particular type of tester I'm borrowing. Its not the dual gauge units like all the vids have (which are self explanatory with no need for a video IMO), its this -



Searching vids was more about getting a consensus on the proper method of performing the test anyway. (Imagine that, conflicting opinions on the internet. Who knew?) Perform @ TDC? Back off the valves? Do you connect the inlet tube when the tester is fully pressurized, or do you connect first and turn up the air after? (checked this board first and it was just as undetermined on best practice)

Turns out this particular box expects to be pressurized by shop air first, (120 psi...sharp eyes will see the box says 60 max, so don't tell anyone) and then connected to the cylinder in question. You calibrate the gauge to zero before connecting to the cylinder and you watch the gauge try to get back to zero once you are connected. Where it stops is your % of leak-down.

Most testers agreed the test should be done at TDC on the compression stroke. My thinking about that recommendation is to make sure the valves are closed and maybe give the tester a consistent bore to work with. Am I wrong? (Real mechanics feel free to chime in.) I really should ask this question in the tech forum. My testing was not done at TDC, but the valves were all backed off, eliminating them from the equation. However, I did get different readings depending on where the piston was in the hole. I'm not really sure why. Whats worse is every time I put the cylinder at TDC thinking it might make a difference, air pressure pushed the cylinder downward, which was pretty easy given there was no spring pressure and the plugs were out. I can run the test again with the valves set to be 100% sure, but after looking at the numbers, I'm don't see a need. Check'em out.

- The dipstick is out to see if I can hear/feel any air coming out
- The radiator cap is off to see if anything is coming back through the head gasket.

Passenger side -
#2 - dry - 12%
#4 - dry - 35%
#6 - dry - 35%
#8 - dry - 15%

Seeing how off the two middle cylinders were, I put some oil in them and retested.

#4 - wet - 10%
#6 - wet - 10%


Drivers side -
#1 - dry - 4%
#3 - dry - 4%
#5 - dry - 6%
#7 - dry - 12%

Most of the air I'm hearing is coming from the gaping distributor hole, which makes sense if the rings are letting it all go into the crankcase, but honestly, the air noise there wasn't any different between a good or a "bad" cylinder. Still, putting oil in the faulty cylinders "sealed" the deal on the real culprit. Bad rings.

A compression test on those two cylinders shows consistent numbers (245psi) with other cylinders, but of course that was done wet since the oil was still in the cylinder from the previous leak testing round. (I'll check them again when the oil has a chance to settle out of the cylinder)

You want my theory on why those two are down? Doesn't matter, you're getting it anyway.

Back in 2015 when I first decided to rebuild this engine, I self imposed a budget upon...myself. Had to. The wife and I just moved into a new house and I wanted to play it safe to see how the bills went and to make sure no major surprises with the new home set us back. (say like a "new" roof leaking onto your drum set even though it was just done 6 months prior to you buying the house) Yeah, things like that. The idea was to just get the car back in working order and drive it. Then I got it into my head that I'd send the heads out for some work, and I knew the fuel system would need work..... and by the time the 4 bolt caps came into the picture (you know the story!) I was well beyond anything resembling a budget. (but had to get back to safe). The point is, not buying new rings at that time was one way to save some money. I didn't see a need. They've been in the engine for 5 years and have likely 3-4k miles on them, probably less. As long as they stayed with their respective cylinder and no honing was done, there should be no problem, right? That was until my machinist pointed out that I had initially installed two of the rings upside down. (don't recall exactly which rings they were, but I have a sneaking suspicion I now know which cylinders they're in) It was kind of a backhanded compliment too. He he told me many amateur builders usually screw up a lot more than two, so I guess that's good?? What are the odds those two rings are on right-side-up now in cylinders 4 and 6, the same two leaking down right now? Pretty good I'd say.


The big question now is, what am I going to do about it? Not a dang thing. The whole point of this test was to understand why the engine was smoking. I figured it out. Keeping it in perspective, the engine only has 90 minutes on it. I'm going to drive the car and put some hard mileage on it. (If I ever get back my distributor!) If the engine still smokes after some serious beat downs, I'll reconsider my options. If I'm being positive, I think those rings will seat to that cylinder in short order. But if i have to re-ring, I can do it in a weekend. I'll wait and see what happens instead of making that call now. Right move? Probably not, but its the way its going to be.


In parting, allow me to clarify an earlier post. At the beginning of this thread I stated new rings went into this build. I actually thought that was the true. (I still do to some degree, but the evidence is mounting to the contrary!) Its been so long since all of that happened, and it seems so absurd not to put new rings in, I thought I must have and forgotten I didn't. It was only recently when I tried to find a receipt that I had to really figure out what happened. Having only one old ring box is the real proof, as I keep all of those odd boxes for storage. Without a second box and no receipt, I can safely conclude I never had a second set of rings.

__________________
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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #76  
Old 02-16-2021, 12:12 AM
73LeMans's Avatar
73LeMans 73LeMans is offline
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Default I get bored...




New rubber comes Mid March -




I'll be changing the front street rims over to something different than the Centerlines that have been on since 1990. I'll post pictures when I decide what they'll be. Front tires aren't much younger, so will be swapping those BFGs out too.

__________________
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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #77  
Old 02-17-2021, 09:52 PM
cdrookie cdrookie is offline
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Purdy! What size are those meats?

  #78  
Old 02-18-2021, 12:52 AM
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73LeMans 73LeMans is offline
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Short answer? Da-same. 325/50/15s on a 10" wheel.

Long answer? (here is where you can tell I'm lacking human contact)

Unfortunately, I fell in love with the Weld V Series wheel. What makes it unfortunate is they don't come in 1/2" backspacing increments, so it forces a choice of 4 or a 5" of BS. (different than the 4.5" I had prior) Bringing the wheel in 1/2" makes it much tighter than before, so I couldn't vary much beyond than the 325. Its rather "deflating" but I'll probably rub the exhaust with this setup.

Tires choice gets a bit more "sticky".

I knew the tires would remain Mickeys. Tried a few different brands over the years (Goodyear, M&H) and the soft sidewalls are a tad unsettling on the street. When I went with my current ET Street Radial 10 years ago, I was "hooked" (you saw that coming) as nothing has ever connected with the track better. Here's the rub(ber).

The Mickeys use a different bead than most tire brands. So much so, Weld uses a specific bead lock on their wheel for an M/T tire. So you gotta make a choice and you gotta make it right now - go with the MT bead lock, or never run Mickeys again? And my wife says I have a problem with commitment. Ha! This will show her!

In all honestly, I'd prefer the ET Street SS tire, mainly because its draws less law enforcement attention with its tread pattern, but of course Id have to give up some section width to stick with a 28" diameter. Not wanting to work "tirelessly" figuring out new ratios or constantly be worrying that a shorter tire wouldn't look right, OR giving up any section width, the ET Street R Radial was my only option.

Going to 5/8" studs with this too. Axles are already drilled. Just gotta pull them to get the 1/2" studs out. (5/8" studs go through the front)

Toying with the idea of going rear disk too. Rumor has it they only push the wheel out 1/8" from the drum setup.

Is all this overkill ? Hell yeah it is. Do I care? Not in the least. It's going to a be a "good year".

As I said, I get bored.

__________________
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Mark S
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Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
  #79  
Old 02-18-2021, 11:10 PM
cdrookie cdrookie is offline
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Can you post a side shot of your car? I don't think I've seen a still shot of it from the side. And what size are your front tires?

  #80  
Old 02-19-2021, 03:16 PM
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73LeMans 73LeMans is offline
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Sure man. I don't have too many direct shots from the side. Its not too flattering an angle IMO. This 3/4 is probably the closest I can get ya.




Front street tires are 245/60/15 on an 8.5" wheel.
Front drag tires are 27x4.5 on 15 diameter, 3.5"

__________________
.
Mark S
.
Who needs nice and pretty, when you can have mean and nasty?
KRE Aluminum headed 463CID 73 LeMans. Used to run 10.6x @ 124.55. 3700lbs
.
So much for 2020...shootin for 9s in 2021...and in 2022 apparently.....looks like 2023 as well.
>>My 73 Build thread
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