[Va68goat]

mgarblik,
It does have a mechanical fuel pump. We did remove the fuel pump and ran it with just the fuel in the bowls. The knocking noise was still present.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

mgarblik,
It does have a mechanical fuel pump. We did remove the fuel pump and ran it with just the fuel in the bowls. The knocking noise was still present.

I am sorry that wasn't an issue because an easy fix. I wish you the best. I will keep thinking about it. Knowing that Paul is an expert and it was fine on the dyno, I am concentrating on what changed and what is different in the car. Keep the faith.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by JSPONT

I don't know one builder that does not weld the oil pick up, if you don't better start. It would not knock like the sound in that video.
It is not that.

When using a press fit pickup, I fabbed a tab bolted to pump and welded to tube. Always been paranoid about welding directly to pump.

My current motor I had a Milodon pan with bolt on pickup. I wasn’t born yesterday.

[Paul E]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

When using a press fit pickup, I fabbed a tab bolted to pump and welded to tube. Always been paranoid about welding directly to pump.

My current motor I had a Milodon pan with bolt on pickup. I wasn’t born yesterday.

So many weld the tube to cast with 70S6 filler. Should use a nickel or at least 312 stainless to avoid cracking NEXT to the weld

Paul

[NeighborsComplaint]

Say what you will but I had the same noise on my first 455. Oil pickup tube rubbing on Moroso pan baffle.

[Va68goat]

mgarblik,
Well, I honestly believe that the knocking noise was missed at the dyno. It's understandable considering how loud it must be. When the car was first started, the knocking noise was different. After conducting about 25 hours of diagnosis and replacement of parts, we pulled the motor and checked the windage tray. There were witness marks on the tray. We added some spacing and put it all back together and started the car. The knocking noise was not as loud and appears to have a different tone. I think the noise from the windage tray masked the current noise that we here now.

[Va68goat]

NeighborsComplaint,
When you had the same noise on your motor, were there witness marks or evidence of the rubbing on the pan?

[mgarblik]

Well, it may be best to get the engine back in the hands of the gentleman who can verify and correct the engine to your satisfaction. It's unfortunate you have the long distance situation to deal with.

[craigs69]

Originally Posted by dataway

"I hear you knocking but you can't come in! "

At some point I usually give up and drive the heck out of it ... if it's an important noise, it will make the cause known before too long

I have had a knocking noise coming from lower rear in my engine for the last 4+ years. I am not running a windage tray and I installed a new SFI flex plate with the build. I swapped cam/lifters and rockers, checked the fuel pump eccentric, verified crank end play and separated the converter from the flexplate and the knock remained. I have removed the pan several times and swapped out the oil pump. Nothing seems out of spec. It seems like it quiets down some when the engine is up to temp and sometimes goes away entirely. I have never found anything alarming in the oil or filter and my oil pressure is fine. It gets pushed to 5,000+ rpm every time I take it out and 4+ years later and 5,000 miles, no issues.

[dataway]

Just watched that video again about ten times ... jeez, I'm going to go against the grain and say it's coming from the front of the engine. I assume you've removed all the belts and ran the engine and the sound remains? Like others, I think it's half engine rpm since it's almost slow enough that you can count them. Any chance the timing chain could be contacting something? In my mind a see a picture of a bad chain link on a double roller slapping the nose of the oil pan ... but I don't think it's close enough to do that.

Other than the noise ... engine sounds great, very healthy and strong.

[mgarblik]

I guess my feeling is we have a "new to the Pontiac hobby" guy who has stated many times in the 300+ posts that he is new to engines and so forth. He has good people around him helping and a good engine builder thousands of miles away unfortunately. The engine should not be making this noise. None of us, myself included seem to know what it is, but it's not normal and IMO should not be ignored, especially on a new build. I feel ultimately, although a big PIA, he will be happier having it returned to the builder and corrected. We all know it will be some dumb little thing. But if ignored, it could become a big thing. I feel bad for everyone involved because sometimes these things just happen and they can be infuriating.

[dataway]

We should start a Go-Fund-Me to cover shipping The thread has provided a lot of information and thought provoking reading.

[Va68goat]

mgarblik,
My fear is, if I send the motor back and Paul can't duplicate the knocking noise, then we're going to have to figure out who is covering the shipping expense. Like I said before, I have over $1,600 in parts, over 60 hours of diagnosis time and I still can't drive my car. I can tell you this much...you should see how clean the car is. I've clay barred it and waxed it and it looks great under the cover..hahaha!

craigs69,
With me not knowing much about cars, I'm worried about driving this car because I'm worried it may cause more damage. Believe me, the weather is great today and will be nice all weekend, the last thing I want to see is the car under the cover. I got this car to drive the hell out of it and I've put less than 200 miles on it. I don't have the confidence in this motor to drive it any further than my neighborhood.

dataway,
We did run the car without the belts on, the same knocking noise was present.

mgarblik,
Man, to pull this motor and send it back is a tough thing to do. I really think I need to do everything I can to try and take care of it because I'm concerned that Paul wont be able to duplicate the noise. I'm running out of options now though. I've gone through hours of testing that Paul suggested and the knocking noise is still here. I even suggested paying half the plane ticket for Paul to come here and stay at my house but he's a busy guy with a lot of work to do.

dataway,
I've been learning a lot about cars thats for damn sure. Hell, I've never even changed oil in a car in my life until I got this car. I'm enjoying learning and I've done a lot with this car but I have exceeded my mechanical abilities..hahaha

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

NeighborsComplaint,
When you had the same noise on your motor, were there witness marks or evidence of the rubbing on the pan?

Couldn't tell really. The shop that welded the pickup to the pump put the pickup tube in a vise so there marks all over it.

When I fired the motor for the first time, the previous owner was there and crawled under the car immediately as he noticed the sound and said something is wrong, you have some kind of interference in the bottom end. At first he thought maybe the rear main seal had spun but it wasn't leaking. It sounded like yours. Not a knock, just a scuffing sound. We pulled the motor, flipped it over and removed the pan. Checked the bearings first, inspected the rear main seal, checked the lower dipstick tube and windage tray.

I pulled the oil pump and pickup out and spun it with a drill to listen for noises and found nothing. As we were putting it back together, the prior owner noticed the shop had cocked the pickup )large tube RA IV style) slightly when they tacked it to the pump and the pickup wasn't level left to right.

The pan had a fairly tight baffle and you had to angle the pan to get it over the pickup. With the pan resting on the gasket you could move the pan slightly to align the bolt holes and feel the baffle bump the pickup tube. We ground some clearance on the baffle instead of waiting to have the pump pickup rewelded, reassembled and fired it up and the noise was gone.

I could be wrong and I know your pan has no baffled sump, but when I listened to your vid, I thought damn I've heard that sound before.

[Va68goat]

NeighborsComplaint,
Well....I find what you wrote pretty interesting!

[AG]

I would expect that if you took the pushrod cover off, the timing cover off, and the oil pan off to check bearings you will find the root cause of the issue since you have effectively eliminated the flexplate and windage tray as possible sources, hopefully.

[Va68goat]

AG,
We did add the correct spacing to the windage tray. I haven't inspected or replaced the flexplate yet. I would love to be able to do the flexplate by myself but with my lack of knowledge, I really would be worried to do something that would made things worse for me. When the flexplate work is done, if it still knocks, I think at that point, I will have no choice to speak to Paul about sending the motor back.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

AG,
We did add the correct spacing to the windage tray. I haven't inspected or replaced the flexplate yet. I would love to be able to do the flexplate by myself but with my lack of knowledge, I really would be worried to do something that would made things worse for me. When the flexplate work is done, if it still knocks, I think at that point, I will have no choice to speak to Paul about sending the motor back.

Before you waste time on the flexplate. At least pull the plugs and get a ratchet on the front of the crank and turn the engine by hand, and see if you ever feel any unusual tight area, binding, rubbing, noise of any kind.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Before you waste time on the flexplate. At least pull the plugs and get a ratchet on the front of the crank and turn the engine by hand, and see if you ever feel any unusual tight area, binding, rubbing, noise of any kind.

Great idea - maybe someone with a stethoscope at the same time monitoring for noise.

[Va68goat]

Well, I don't know if this will help anyone come up with a guess. What do you guys think? Don't mind the smoke coming from the exhaust pipe. I spilled a little oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdHjFtXOP_Y