[turbo69bird]

There’s a 69 TA RAIV coming up on 18th and some Judge RAIVs. Wondering if anyone here has a car at the auction?

Anyone have info on cars. ?

[turbo69bird]

Nice TA , column shift.

[turbo69bird]

FYI The red RAIV GTO says wayyyyyyyy down in listing it had flood damage ( fresh water ) nice looking car though

[400 4spd.]

Any water damage was minimal. The owner immediately had the fluids taken care of and the shell dried out in a dealership paint booth oven. I know it has 100% original floors and the quarters are original, so no corrosion that I saw or repaired. The exterior paint was done sometime in the past, before I saw the car.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

Any water damage was minimal. The owner immediately had the fluids taken care of and the shell dried out in a dealership paint booth oven. I know it has 100% original floors and the quarters are original, so no corrosion that I saw or repaired. The exterior paint was done sometime in the past, before I saw the car.

Awesome info ! Good to have someone who’s seen it. Really good looking car for sure. Did you see it at the auction or do you know the car?

W all the flooding down in FL and NC can’t be too careful w cars these days so this First hand info is great



I

[Drag Star Le Mans]

Lots of Pontiac's went across the block today and they didn't cut to commercial.
Very unusual as this would always happen in the past.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by Drag Star Le Mans

Lots of Pontiac's went across the block today and they didn't cut to commercial.
Very unusual as this would always happen in the past.

I watched most of the day I think I only saw 1 RAIII GTO. That did well. I must have missed them or something how did they do price wise ? Figures all I saw was chevies and fords all day

[400 4spd.]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

Awesome info ! Good to have someone who’s seen it. Really good looking car for sure. Did you see it at the auction or do you know the car?

W all the flooding down in FL and NC can’t be too careful w cars these days so this First hand info is great



I

I know the car and the owner, a straight-up honest guy.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

I know the car and the owner, a straight-up honest guy.

What area is the car out of?
There’s one just like it out of CT that’s not that same car is it?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Owner is a PY member and has owned it since 1991.
Flood was in 1999

PHS shows it sold new in Corry PA . 4.33 axle car
PHS for replacement block shows it came from a 4.33 Judge sold at Knafel in Ohio

Real 9273 carb and date matched JA rims
Honest car with a lot of attention given to correctness and detail.

[poncho-mike]

The car was in the Raleigh area since at least the mid-1990s. I sold the current owner the Ram IV engine somewhere around 1996 - 1998. I acquired the Ram IV engine around 1986 when I was living near Charlotte. Prior to Pontiac Historical Services, you could contact Pontiac directly and ask them to send the build sheet to your car. The build sheet came back as belonging to a 1969 RamIV Judge. The Judge had been wrecked and the owner bought a 1969 Firebird 350 HO 4-spd as a donor body. It's been a long time, but I believe the Judge was probably wrecked in the late 1970s or early 1980s because the engine had been in the Firebird for a number of years when I got it. I helped install the engine in the Ram IV GTO.

After the flood water receded, the car was taken to a body shop, flushed with fresh water, the engine and trans was removed. The engine was taken to the engine shop I used for my work. The Ram IV carb wasn't on the engine at the time, so it was never under water. The main body panels are in excellent condition and I believe all are original to the car. The trunk floor looked like it had never been wet, floor boards were rust free. The car has been stored inside a very nice garage since at least the mid-1990s.

The block, heads, and intake were all from the original motor. Cast dates align up almost perfectly with the motor.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by poncho-mike

The block, heads, and intake were all from the original motor.

So the complete Knafel Ram4 Judge engine survived intact from intake to oil pan
And that is what is in the car now ?

If that Knafel Judge could be found it would be worth about 50-100% more than any other 69 Judge Hdtp.

[poncho-mike]

I don't know all of the history. I didn't want to make the original post too long.

In the mid-1980s, I was living in Locust (west of Albemarle) and ran into a guy who asked me if I was interested in buying a 1969 Firebird. He said he acquired the Firebird from either a friend or a family member that got into legal trouble and sold the car to raise money. The car was running and driving, but was in primer and didn't look all that good. The guy I bought it from didn't know much about it. I think he was a little reluctant to put me in touch with the guy he bought it from because he didn't want the guy knowing he made a profit from flipping it. I pestered the seller for a while, and I finally got to talk to the previous owner on the phone. I think the previous owner brought the car to NC when he was in the military. He told me the motor was out of a 1969 Judge that had been wrecked a number of years before. I assumed the Judge was wrecked in NC, but I'm not positive about that. The local cops ran the Judge VIN through NC DMV, and they had no record of it. That doesn't mean the Judge wasn't in NC at one time because after five years the VIN numbers drop off of DMV. I believe I also checked SC DMV and VA DMV, and there was no record of it anywhere in the late 1980s. So I did make an effort to find the Judge, with no luck.

[turbo69bird]

Sounds like a nice car . Wasn’t trying to knock the car , as it was disclosed anyway I just didn’t want anyone to miss it and be surprisedAnd it cause some kind of issues.

It personally wouldn’t bother me but it said it is on the title or something to that effect. CT doesn’t have titles so wouldn’t mean squat here. I think other states woukld be the same way .

As far as the engine being from a differnt car that also doesn’t mean much to me. It’s a RAIv it’s all the right RAIv parts, what someone did or didn’t stamp on the block means nothing to me. ( personally) In fact it shows it s an honest car honest seller that its guaranteed not a stamper. That block didn’t know where it was going to be put or what it was going to have stamped on it just knew it was a RAIv block. The car looks amazing in the pictures.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by poncho-mike

So I did make an effort to find the Judge, with no luck.

Damn cool story Mike . Thankyou

To me it makes a difference that it's an honest block.
Rarely see those anymore. Just a lot of simulations.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Damn cool story Mike . Thankyou

To me it makes a difference that it's an honest block.
Rarely see those anymore. Just a lot of simulations.

Not sure I entirely know what that references but I’m pretty sure I agree

[poncho-mike]

I think Baron is talking about re-stamped blocks.

In the 1980s, I had several Ram IV blocks, in addition to a Ram I and a Ram II that I should have saved. In addition to the 69 Judge motor, I had a 1970 Ram IV Trans Am block from a car sold new in Asheboro (where Baron lives). I also had a Ram IV out of a 1969 Firebird that came from WV. I pulled the main caps off the Ram I and Ram II motors I found in the Carolinas. These two were probably salvageable, both had dropped a rod and taken a chunk out of the side of the block.

[Mcronk]

Hey guys I have been posting almost daily from my onsite observations with photos and videos. I also am reporting some of the more notable Pontiac sales. You can follow the report on the FB Pontiac Motor Division and Pontiacs Online sites. I have info on the 69 Judge RAIV cars and others on the 68-69 GTO Lemans FB site too. I have done "deep dives" on the 68 RA I Firebird convertible and a few others. If you want to see somethng let me know and I will try and check it out. I hear the Atoll Blue 70 RA IV is outstanding! I will get pictures of it tomorrow. Things are about to get real interesting this week!

On a sad note John Kraman the Mecum on air commentator passed away. He was a Pontiac enthusiast.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by poncho-mike

I think Baron is talking about re-stamped blocks.

In the 1980s, I had several Ram IV blocks, in addition to a Ram I and a Ram II that I should have saved. In addition to the 69 Judge motor, I had a 1970 Ram IV Trans Am block from a car sold new in Asheboro (where Baron lives). I also had a Ram IV out of a 1969 Firebird that came from WV. I pulled the main caps off the Ram I and Ram II motors I found in the Carolinas. These two were probably salvageable, both had dropped a rod and taken a chunk out of the side of the block.

What’s funny is I think I have your name in my phone book from way back in hemmings Classical Pontiac , days , mid yo late 90s next to “firebird RAIV block . “ Didnt have the $$ at the time had a business and just bought a house.

[poncho-mike]

I work in design engineering. When the economy goes into the crapper, R&D is usually one of the first things cut. I have been laid off three times over my career, the first two times my wife pressured me to sell some of my stash. The bad thing is that it was never necessary, my time out of work was 2 weeks, 3 months, and one month respectively. So it's very likely I put the 1970 Ram IV block up for sale around late 1998 or early 2000s.