[Formulajones]

I don't have any iron housings for Pontiac but I do have a couple of iron distributors laying around for Chevrolet on the mezzanine, one has been in the Nomad since the early 70's and when I daily drove that car it always worked flawless. In fact it still has the same set of points in it from the 80's when I was driving it, that thing still fires right up on the first lick and purrs. Always thought the little oil tube with a spring lid was a cool feature. They had service in mind when they built those.

I don't really have any issues with the aluminum housings either. Run the original in the Firebird and the original 480 in the 69 Z. I still see them at swap meets all the time, not the expensive numbers type so much but run of the mill points distributors are pretty much still a dime a dozen at swap meets. Saw a handful of them this weekend for $30-$40. People always dump them thinking the newest wiz bang setup is better. Could always pick up a couple of those, if they feel tight, and most of them seem to be, I'd have no issue going through it and running it for a project for myself.

[Schurkey]

I haven't dicked with points in thirty-plus years. I'm amazed that they're getting good press here. I was DONE with points when the HEIs showed-up in the Treasure Yards.

HEI is THE most-reliable electronic ignition ever designed. Parts are readily available even in Small-Town America, and probably Small-town Canada and Mexico, too. Given a choice, I'd start with a used-but-usable GENUINE GM "Delco" HEI core. Of course, there's been no new DELCO HEIs for a couple of decades, and aftermarket parts are becoming questionable...but the same goes for points and condensers.

I like the larger spread between plug terminals. Being a bigger unit isn't a bug, it's a feature.

And...set up properly, you can run the HEI-compatible spark box of your choice, and when it fails you re-connect the HEI module and drive home.



Unilite...Pertronix...NO THANKS. Points distributors make great oil-pump priming tools.

[lust4speed]

I purchased a Mallory Unilite conversion module in 1985 after the dyno operator sent me down to the speed shop when my Mallory X points were crapping out after about 5,400 RPM. That same Unilite module is still puttering along just fine and my old Sun machine can't go high enough to find out the upper RPM limit.

I wonder if the proponents of points have ever checked them on a distributor machine? Most start taking a dump in the low 4,000 range with very few making it anywhere near 6,000 RPM. Fine for grandma to go to the grocery store back in the day, but the industry has made some progress since the horse and buggy days. We just ran an engine on the Westech dyno and the points distributor was starting to get wonky about 4,400. The interesting thing is the points looked pretty good up to about 5,400 on the machine but on the engine they started giving trouble way below that. Maybe running harmonics that wasn't there on the distributor machine upset the points? I brought along a cast iron distributor with a Fast XRi module and it kept things together for the rest of the day. The first photo is what I usually see when running points at moderately high RPM's on the Sun machine, and the second is with an electronic module installed. Give me Unilite, XRi, MSD, or anything but Pertronix (I wonder if 95% of the bad press about electronic modules doesn't originate from Pertronix failures).

[Formulajones]

You guys running cheap set of points?
I've had the accel points on the distributor machine, when the sun machine worked, lol and never had issues at higher rpms.

[HWYSTR455]

I've run just about everything at one time or another, and prefer MSD/Holley units. Tolerances on the housings is really good, pickups are really good (mag and/or hall effect), and for the most part are easily setup. The mag pickup MSDs (or other) are very reliable, and are less of a concern than HEI units. All are stable to RPMs most here will never see.

The HEIs wide spread terminals are a good thing, helps prevent crossfire/arc. That is especially a good thing once you start using CD boxes with higher spark. They do make the wide setup for MSD dizzies if you want that, but the regular cap design has ridges that help almost as well. I have not noticed any arc witness marks with them (as long as the parts are fresh & clean). Space is a premium, especially with 3x2/2x4 setups.

HEI unit quality is a factor for HEIs, and weights as well as matching weights can get dicey (on OE points setups too). You can skip right past all those drawbacks if you lockout a dizzy (any kind) and use a programmable MSD (or other) unit.

I can see using an OE unit if you are trying to stay original or for a 'look', but makes no sense to be to use one on a performance app. And try finding a good performance cap for an OE points dizzy. The few out there are just as expensive as any other performance cap, if not more. Cheap caps with a CD box are eaten very quickly. Or even just a good coil. Same with rotors.



.

[mgarblik]

Little side note: For those interested in the old iron distributors. At the Norwalk swap meet there were well over 100 of them for sale by many, many vendors. If not looking for a specific one with the DELCO band still on it, there were many good cores for $35.00-$50.00. Take it apart, clean and lubricate everything, check the vacuum advance and you have a good starting point without dealing with poor fitting/non- functioning Chinese crap.

[Formulas]

watch Engine Masters ep. Throwing Sparks

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I've run just about everything at one time or another, and prefer MSD/Holley units. Tolerances on the housings is really good, pickups are really good (mag and/or hall effect), and for the most part are easily setup. The mag pickup MSDs (or other) are very reliable, and are less of a concern than HEI units. All are stable to RPMs most here will never see.

The HEIs wide spread terminals are a good thing, helps prevent crossfire/arc. That is especially a good thing once you start using CD boxes with higher spark. They do make the wide setup for MSD dizzies if you want that, but the regular cap design has ridges that help almost as well. I have not noticed any arc witness marks with them (as long as the parts are fresh & clean). Space is a premium, especially with 3x2/2x4 setups.

HEI unit quality is a factor for HEIs, and weights as well as matching weights can get dicey (on OE points setups too). You can skip right past all those drawbacks if you lockout a dizzy (any kind) and use a programmable MSD (or other) unit.

I can see using an OE unit if you are trying to stay original or for a 'look', but makes no sense to be to use one on a performance app. And try finding a good performance cap for an OE points dizzy. The few out there are just as expensive as any other performance cap, if not more. Cheap caps with a CD box are eaten very quickly. Or even just a good coil. Same with rotors.



.

Just an fyi and for others reading, those really nice and heavy msd caps you can readily buy with female terminals fit the points distributors. I can still also purchase the nice accel caps.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Little side note: For those interested in the old iron distributors. At the Norwalk swap meet there were well over 100 of them for sale by many, many vendors. If not looking for a specific one with the DELCO band still on it, there were many good cores for $35.00-$50.00. Take it apart, clean and lubricate everything, check the vacuum advance and you have a good starting point without dealing with poor fitting/non- functioning Chinese crap.

Yup, just the little swap meet I went to over the weekend I must have seen a half dozen points distributors for $30 or so.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Just an fyi and for others reading, those really nice and heavy msd caps you can readily buy with female terminals fit the points distributors. I can still also purchase the nice accel caps.

Yes, and are about $55+ without rotor. The 'Streetfire' ones for same money get you the rotor too, but aren't as nice as the regular ones.

I haven't checked on the Accel ones in a long time, but suspect they are about the same price.


.

[Formulajones]

Everything is expensive these days so that's pretty much the norm now.

[mgarblik]

The Echlin Heavy Duty cap with brass terminals and a tan, Heavy Phenolic plastic is $28.00 at any NAPA store. The similar high quality rotor is around $13.00 . Echlin heavy duty points are also available at NAPA. Not sure of cost. Echlin used to make all that stuff for Accel. With Holley buying Accel, who knows where the stuff is made now? Have to assume China.

[SRR]

Originally Posted by Skippy597

Thank you everyone. It seems that a points distributor and msd are the way to go. Now where can one find a rebuilt or excellent condition iron points distributor?

Sun tuned, do you rebuild the units or.just tune them for advance?

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=870863

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

I purchased a Mallory Unilite conversion module in 1985 after the dyno operator sent me down to the speed shop when my Mallory X points were crapping out after about 5,400 RPM. That same Unilite module is still puttering along just fine and my old Sun machine can't go high enough to find out the upper RPM limit.

I wonder if the proponents of points have ever checked them on a distributor machine? Most start taking a dump in the low 4,000 range with very few making it anywhere near 6,000 RPM. Fine for grandma to go to the grocery store back in the day, but the industry has made some progress since the horse and buggy days. We just ran an engine on the Westech dyno and the points distributor was starting to get wonky about 4,400. The interesting thing is the points looked pretty good up to about 5,400 on the machine but on the engine they started giving trouble way below that. Maybe running harmonics that wasn't there on the distributor machine upset the points? I brought along a cast iron distributor with a Fast XRi module and it kept things together for the rest of the day. The first photo is what I usually see when running points at moderately high RPM's on the Sun machine, and the second is with an electronic module installed. Give me Unilite, XRi, MSD, or anything but Pertronix (I wonder if 95% of the bad press about electronic modules doesn't originate from Pertronix failures).

You wonder ? Well YES, that is exactly what I did. Got my distributor fresh from Dan back in the day with those same Nappa/Accel CS7860 points you can still buy today.
Ran that sucker up to the max RPM spinning so fast that I did not entirely feel safe standing next to it. never a blip, not one. Did you have points made in North Korea then stomp on them ?
I tell people to get the medium spring for a reason, they do not bounce !
AND I did my own "dyno" test at the drag strip. Took my Whitmore iron distributor and made a pass. Pulled it and swapped a aluminum dist, changed the springs form the iron one. Both have the advances limited the same. Aluminum had a Petronix.
And ran the same pass.
My buddies Sun machine could not find the point where the medium spring points bounced !
There were a couple of cars at the track yesterday misfire ring with electronic stuff. Mine has not had a miss fire in 30 years.

[67drake]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You wonder ? Well YES, that is exactly what I did. Got my distributor fresh from Dan back in the day with those same Nappa/Accel CS7860 points you can still buy today.
Ran that sucker up to the max RPM spinning so fast that I did not entirely feel safe standing next to it. never a blip, not one. Did you have points made in North Korea then stomp on them ?
I tell people to get the medium spring for a reason, they do not bounce !
AND I did my own "dyno" test at the drag strip. Took my Whitmore iron distributor and made a pass. Pulled it and swapped a aluminum dist, changed the springs form the iron one. Both have the advances limited the same. Aluminum had a Petronix.
And ran the same pass.
My buddies Sun machine could not find the point where the medium spring points bounced !
There were a couple of cars at the track yesterday misfire ring with electronic stuff. Mine has not had a miss fire in 30 years.

I had the 400 on my GTO up to 6300 with no points bounce. I run the medium oz. rated points. (28?) I’d have to look it up.

[HWYSTR455]

Well, on misfires, when you hear it, it's hard to blame it on any one thing, but I know when you run a box it eats caps, rotors, and plug wires faster than without.

And I have seen people run plug wires for 10-20 years without changing them, saying 'they still look good' as justification. Just like the tire guys.



.

[dataway]

Right now I have the correct aluminum dizzy in my 68 GTO. However when I bought it used in 1976 with 90k miles on it, it had an iron unit installed. I assume replaced at some point by the original owner (he was not mechanically inclined so had to be done at a dealer or shop). I replaced it with aluminum for originality sake ... makes me wonder if the dealer/shop knew something back then and I should go back to the iron unit which I still have. When I was building the engine, half a dozen times I picked up that iron distributor and contemplated if I should use it .. I like iron thing ... but ended up opting for a correct aluminum one.
I'm guessing the original aluminum unit crapped out at some point in the first 90k miles.

[Sun Tuned]

Of all the aluminum distributors the 67-68 housings are the best there is out of all of em.

If you look down under the bottom, just under the gear, you will find the wall thickness of the housing where it supports the bushing is about 30% thicker there.

They are much more friendly on the bottom bushing.

I have no clue why they changed that. It was a win anyhow you looked at it and 69-74 was noticeably thinner.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

The bushings are exactly the same size od,id, and length.

The main reason they stay together better is the iron units at the bottom of the housing fully support and I mean fully surround the bottom bushing….tightly. This keeps any movement outside normal expansion rates to zero.
The fact that the iron housing was poured from the same exact iron formulation as the engine blocks, as they were poured in the same plant, keeps the expansion rates of both exactly the same rate.

The second and likely of equal importance here is the oiling for the iron distributors was much different than the later lighter aluminum units. As long as one used hood oil and changed it on a regular basis, you were pretty much gold.

Thanks for that. I have always wondered why they are so much tighter.
There is just something about pressing a bushing into cast iron.
What is you bottom gear clearance difference between iron and aluminum ?
Exactly what is 'hood oil " ?
I have not noticed and oil tubes with spring cups on my 2 Pontiac iron distributors that I have.
And can you trigger a MSD box with a HEI with the module unplugged ?
Exactly how does that work ?

[b-man]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Thanks for that. I have always wondered why they are so much tighter.
There is just something about pressing a bushing into cast iron.
What is you bottom gear clearance difference between iron and aluminum ?
Exactly what is 'hood oil " ?
I have not noticed and oil tubes with spring cups on my 2 Pontiac iron distributors that I have.
And can you trigger a MSD box with a HEI with the module unplugged ?
Exactly how does that work ?

He meant good oil not hood oil.

I’m used to interpreting typos when reading posts here.