[blk70gto]

Does anyone out there know how many of which color came on Ram Air 4 Automatic Judges. Supposedly 85% of them were Carasel Red and 15% were other colors how many of which color were made. I have one that is not Carasel Red. Please I need to know if at all possible. Thank you for your reply.

[blk70gto]

Does anyone out there know how many of which color came on Ram Air 4 Automatic Judges. Supposedly 85% of them were Carasel Red and 15% were other colors how many of which color were made. I have one that is not Carasel Red. Please I need to know if at all possible. Thank you for your reply.

[JKGTO]

I think it will be a while before that info is available. Mine is Starlight Black. We only have to find 56 more besides mine and yours! Jim

[coolgto]

Unfortunately no one can break the colors down for sure. Actuate records were not kept. (Especially dealing with specific engine options)
The only one that could tell would be PHS and I doubt Jim is going to go through every manifest.

There are a number of Judge surveys out there that you could extrapolate data from (including look at other threads in this forum). A real number or percentage from anyone, however, would still be just a guess.

[SpartanMSU]

I believe Wangers told me once 82%. Who knows the exact number? I'm sure it's in that vicinity.

What color is your Judge?

[Judge Man]

I've heard 84% I've also seen 89%

[blk70gto]

Mine is burgandy with white interior.

[johnta1]

I had a burgandy and white interior Judge.

Why the handle blk70gto if you have a burgandy GTO? Don't like burgandy?

johnta1
Pontiac Power RULES !!!
www.wallaceracing.com

[lawbreaker2]

I have a black on black r/a 4 auto 70

[jimmy daniel]

Mine is Liberty Blue/ blue int. Ram Air III/auto.

[ramair2]

I have a espresso brown 69 RA 4 4speed judge..if you all are right that about 85% were caro red that means 15% x 6725(toal 69 judge production) = 1009 were not...and...equally dividing remaining 1009 non caro judges by the 15 other colors you get the estimate that if your car wasnt originally orange, 67 judges were made in your 'other color'

now for my case....since 4.4% of all 69 judges were ra 4...

67 X 4.4%= 3 espresso brown ra 4 judges made in 1969....

of course this is not true since you cant divide ALL remaining colors equally..more red and white and black were made vs say espresso brown..still a ballpark estimate is just that, ballpark...

again in my case...ra 4 69 judge in espresso...i bet the 3 estiamte is high! maybe i have the only one made?..to be safe id bet a 1-3 made estimate is about as close and realistic as one can get....(unless your name is jim mattison of course)

any thoughts on this??

[blk70gto]

That sounds about right, I figure that the odd colors such as brown, burgandy, maize and the likes were probably like you stated 1-3 made. Thanks for the reply.
Frank

[SpartanMSU]

Estimate? Sure. Realistic? Not on your life!

There's enough morons out there saying their car is "1 of x." Why add to it when there is no basis for your estimate other than some fuzzy math?

[EBJudge]

In this case he may be close.
I've been told by one of the guys that's doing the color surveys that Expresso Brown is one of the three rarest colors on Judges.
I would, however be more conservative until we can get some real numbers from the billing histories.
Who knows? Maybe the people who bought RAIV Judges liked Expresso Brown and bought an inordinate number of the probably <~80 brown ones.
Nothing like claiming your car is a "1 of 1" or "1 or 3" only to find out that there were 50 of them built.
Still rare, just not as rare.

[ramair2]

Hey Spartan flame thrower:

Instead of flaming me on what I said from the get go was an ESTIMATE (fuzzy enough spelling for you?) maybe you should go after PHS who COULD put these and a whole host of other very basic production number issues to rest once and all if they/he really wanted to...Then again there is no built in profit in that venture I suppose...

BTW my 'fuzzy math' is pretty much identical to the process MANY other REAL Pontiac people in the know use (buy Pete Mccarthy's book for one and see how he estiamtes the amount of 70 RA 4 Judge converts made)...Doing what I did above is about the ONLY way you can get in the neighborhood given 0 access to the Billing histories...If this method is good enough for Pete its good enough for me...

Try some sanka before your next post

RA2

[1-GTO]

Quote by RA2:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Then again there is no built-in profit for that venture I suppose? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You hit the nail on the head there RA2!

Since PHS has all the info in their files and can give you the info on any Pontiac if you send them the $35.00 and the VIN number!It would be nice if they did publish a Book listing all the Color and engine combinations of the 1969-71 Judge's!I believe Poncho V-8 made several Post asking for us to see if they would do just that.I don't think It would cut back on anyone wanting the PHS Documentations if they don't list any VIN numbers (since this would be under Privacy Rights Laws).People would still want the VIN numbers identified to verify a car being a Authentic GTO,Judge,or Trans Am and so on!I would buy a book showing informations on all the Production Judges as well as lots of other Pontiac Enthusiast!

[SpartanMSU]

Hey RAII sentsitive guy:

My words still stand. Don't take my words as an attack. Get your facts straight before spouting any "facts". No one wants anything else than the truth, so why try anything otherwise?

By the way, the Judge guy has proven himself to being not too sharp with statistics, so learn all you can from everyone here and maybe you'll get a better idea of what you have.

Sanka indeed!

[EBJudge]

With the numbers that have been quoted on this board that are in the surveys, I'm not sure that the numbers are really a valid sample yet anyway.
But, it's all we've got to work from.
I'd be willing to go to Detroit and help do the research if we could get a team together that PHS would allow to do it.
I know a way to do it quickly, but there would be some cost involved, and if the billing histories are on microfilm or microfiche they would have to be taken off-site for a short time. That, and the cost, may be what's keeping PHS from doing it.
I could write a program that would give PHS all sorts of info on numbers, and would still not need to reveal VIN#s.

[ramair2]

Michican State div II school guy:

READ...(might be asking too much, I know)....

I said ESTIMATE...not FACT...if you can't differentiate between the two words consult a dictionary...

[RamAirJohn]

EBJudge- You represent what I consider to be a true enthusiast. One who desires to know all there is about the cars we enjoy AND most importantly, to share this information with other's who have an equal fascination with such significant details. There are many like us and there will likely be many after us who desire the same thing. Unfortunately, the likelihood of such a project taking place is slim to none under the current structure.

Some of the reasons given why this cannot happen
(according to The Gate Keeper):

1) Not legally possible. Top Secret files. VINs and BH files are sacred and must not be exposed to the public eyes. If the average person even caught a glimpse of a VIN, many lives would be at risk. This is why all VINs on vehicles are completely hidden to avoid vehicle and identity theft as well as thermalnuclear war

2) The files are extremely complex making such research by mere mortals impossible.

3) The microfiche files are not arranged in any sort of numerical or sequential order according to VIN, model or date. Each search requires hours of painstaking work.

4) Such a project would require hundreds of hours of work at a cost of many thousands of dollars. There are no qualified people or software sophisticated enough to perform this complex task.

5) Laws were established and contracts created to specifically prohibit such research from being done without the express written permission from The General and Major League Baseball.

In a nut shell...
Unless someone is willing to shell out $35 for each VIN search, it ain't gonna happen.