[sleepy]

You have health insurance? or you don't?

[wytnyt]

Originally Posted by sleepy

You have health insurance? or you don't?

yes i do
vvrroom

[sleepy]

Why? If you don't get sick you don't need to carry health insurance. According to your posts.
If you don't crash your car you don't need car insurance.
If you don't set your house on fire you don't need a smoke detector or a fire department.
If no one from your town commits a crime you don't a police department. so why have/pay for cops and fire department?
Are you expecting to crash your car, burn down your house or have a crime wave?

[wytnyt]

Originally Posted by sleepy

Why? If you don't get sick you don't need to carry health insurance. According to your posts.

its free,comes with my work

[sleepy]

Originally Posted by wytnyt

its free,comes with my work

It's NOT free. It costs your employer who COULD give you more pay if he didn't have to pay for your health insurance, So it costs YOU.

[wytnyt]

Originally Posted by sleepy

It's NOT free. It costs your employer who COULD give you more pay if he didn't have to pay for your health insurance, So it costs YOU.

no its free,,my pay was the same before and after,except for the raise i got
so my pay went up
hmm,maybe if i got more health ins,i would get more pay too

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by wytnyt

no its free,,my pay was the same before and after,except for the raise i got
so my pay went up
hmm,maybe if i got more health ins,i would get more pay too

[wytnyt]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

yeah,,for 2 more days

[andrewb70]

Originally Posted by moto-d

WEll, if crime drops, there's your correlation

http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/cwp/view,a,1...,mpdcNav,|.asp

Andrew

[Roar]

Originally Posted by andrewb70

I never said anything about you personally. I merely illustrated what can happen when the rhetoric of "for the good of the community" can lead to. People easily embrace that sort of thinking until it is they or their loved ones that are to be sacrificed for the "greater good."

Andrew

Sory Ron, I shouldnt have taken it personally.

[hurryinhoosier62]

For all of you gunphobic individuals, the AVERAGE response time for law enforcement is 8mins. Here's a question; are you willing to put YOUR FAMILY'S SAFETY in the balance based on an eight minute response time? I am NOT!! I have been a CCW license holder since 1989. I've NEVER had to take my weapon out of its holster. I go to the range every month. In my world, considering the number of meth-related break-ins and assaults in the area, it's prudent. BTW, I live in a rural area in S. Central Indiana.

[PonchoV8]

When seconds count, police are minutes away. I don't think the gun control arguments were actually serious. We shouldn't be able to buy guns at stores, but we should be able to own guns for home protection? Then where do we buy them from?

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

In my world, considering the number of meth-related break-ins and assaults in the area, it's prudent. BTW, I live in a rural area in S. Central Indiana.

Meth-central Indiana.

[Nomadac]

Originally Posted by moto-d

That's one argument, Eric, though I haven't seen the data comparing non-CCW states to CCW states. Could be why, if your claims are correct.

By non-statistical, I was meaning the direct impact of losing a family member to a statistically acceptable "failure rate."

In any case, the idea that "guns save lives" has a flaw in it, as these 216 examples show, acceptable statistically or not. Same goes for the other argument, as this Kroger example would indicate.

I recommend you read "More guns less crime" by John Lott. This interview dispels your claims.
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

[PonchoV8]

http://www.knoxviews.com/node/10929
How did one man confront crime in his store?
This crotchety old dude had a chain of local grocery stores during the 1950s to the 1970s around here. He had his own variety show on TV every morning and this is one of the messages he gave when some purse snatchings started happening. This is the man that discovered Dolly Parton. One of his runs for mayor was doing poorly so to get on the front page he slugged one of the other candidates while he was giving a political announcement. He also invented the Scissors that Krogers uses now. His saying was Nobody Beats our Meat.

[andrewb70]

Originally Posted by Roar

Sory Ron, I shouldnt have taken it personally.

I am not Ron, but that's kind of funny...:-)

Andrew

[moto-d]

Originally Posted by Nomadac

I recommend you read "More guns less crime" by John Lott. This interview dispels your claims.
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

I probably should. But let's be clear ... Lott is an intelligent, informed guy, but other intelligent, informed academics and researchers shot down the methodology Lott used to make his cases in this book to which you refer, including the National Academy of Sciences which found "no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases or increases violent crime" including Lott's claims in their statement.

So while I think the book is worth a read, I'll do so critically. The link I provided was not my "claims"; it was a listing of accidental shootings by CCW holders.

[andrewb70]

Originally Posted by moto-d

.....but other intelligent, informed academics and researchers shot down the methodology Lott used to make his cases in this book to which you refer, including the National Academy of Sciences which found "no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases or increases violent crime" including Lott's claims in their statement.
.....

Cites please....

Andrew

[moto-d]

Originally Posted by andrewb70

Cites please....

Andrew

In the New England Journal of Medicine, David Hemenway argued that Lott failed to account for several key variables, including drug consumption, and that therefore the model was flawed;[19] however, Lott's book did account for other variables such as cocaine prices.[20] Others agreed, and some researchers, including Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue, claimed that the model contained significant coding errors and systemic bias.[21] Gary Kleck considered it unlikely that such a large decrease in violent crime could be explained by a relatively modest increase in concealed carry,[22] and others claimed that removing portions of the data set caused the results to still show statistically significant drops only in aggravated assaults and robbery when all counties with fewer than 100,000 people and Florida's counties were both simultaneously dropped from the sample.[23]
In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences conducted a review of current research and data on firearms and violent crime, including Lott's work, and found "no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases or increases violent crime."[24] James Q. Wilson dissented from that opinion, and while accepting the committee's findings on violent crime in general,[25] he noted that the committee's own findings in several tests showed "that shall-issue laws drive down the murder rate".[26]
Referring to the research done on the topic, The Chronicle of Higher Education reported that while most researchers support Lott's findings that right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime, some researchers doubt that concealed carry laws have any impact on violent crime, saying however that "Mr. Lott's research has convinced his peers of at least one point: No scholars now claim that legalizing concealed weapons causes a major increase in crime."[27] As Lott critics Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue III pointed out: "We conclude that Lott and Mustard have made an important scholarly contribution in establishing that these laws have not led to the massive bloodbath of death and injury that some of their opponents feared. On the other hand, we find that the statistical evidence that these laws have reduced crime is limited, sporadic, and extraordinarily fragile."[28]

[moto-d]

Ian Ayres: William K. Townsend Professor at the Yale Law School and a Professor at the Yale School of Management.

John Donohue III: law professor at Stanford, and economist known for his writings on effect of legalized abortion on crime and criticism of the More Guns, Less Crime theory of John Lott.

[moto-d]

Hemenway, David (December 31, 1998). "More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding crime and gun-control laws / Making A Killing: The business of guns in America". The New England Journal of Medicine 339 (27): 2029–30.

Ayres, Ian; John J. Donohue III (April 2003). "Shooting Down the 'More Guns, Less Crime' Hypothesis". Stanford Law Review 55 (4): 1193. doi:10.2139/ssrn.343781.

Kleck, Gary (1997). Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control. New York, NY: Aldine de Gruyter.

NAS, Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review (2004) Executive Summary, Major Conclusions, page 2. Chapter 6 Right-to-Carry Laws, pages 120-151, reviews research by Lott and others on this issue.