["Me"]

The 65 GTO I have was used to autocross, ya thats what I said, Huh? Anyway it has huge sways 11/8 solid in the front and 11/4 solid in the back and the springs are stiff, and I mean "STIFF". I drove the car before it got wrecked and it handled like a go-cart, but rode like a Mack.
As I rebuild I will be replacing with something a little more complient, and will gladly give these springs to anyone that wants them. They are in new condition, no rust.

What would be a good spring that is a "little" firmer than stock, but not a Mack spring? I'd rather go with a softer spring and work on the shock valving so I can stay on these lousy Michigan roads.

Larry

[1coolfish]

will these springs fit in a 72 gto? if so i will take them.

[amcmike]

If you can measure the wire diameter, overall diameter, and number of coils, the spring rate can be estimated. Then you have a starting point to figure what would give you a better ride.

And maybe you could trade with someone here?

With the large bars, you'd probably be happy with a factory spring. Even high performance factory springs were pretty liveable. So for my Firebird front springs, I went to NPD. They let me look at three different "factory replacement" springs (there are about 20 different p/n's depending on year ('67-69, engine size, and convertible vs. coupe)). All had the same wire diameter (measured with calipers) and overall diameter, just different number of coils. So I picked the least number of coils to get the stiffest/lowest. It also turned out to be the cheapest (less metal I guess) at about $60/set. I calculated the rate to be around somewhere between 375 and 400 lbs/inch for my Firebird if I remember correctly. Ride height came exactly to where I wanted it. I've done other things to the suspension, to improve handling (bars, delrin a-arm bushings, solid body mounts, lowered a-arm mounts, etc., better shocks, larger rims, wider tires, etc.), so it wasn't necessary to go super stiff and kill the ride. The low friction delrin style a-arm bushings lessen the harshness of the springs a little, also.

Like you said, our roads suck here. But with my setup I'm not afraid of small pot holes, torn up roads, railroad tracks, or pulling out of the driveway (has slopes towards the road and a rain gutter). I've even had people comment about how nice the ride is. Corners beautifully (had compliments for that too), so much that I need to upgrade the steering to really take advantage of it. Thank goodness for Herb Adams' book.

[1coolfish]

Larry if the set up will fit my 72 Lemans I will take them, Thanks Dave.

[Karch]

I will take them as mine are not working right.

68 and later use different springs...tangential ends, I believe, but double check so I don't sound like I am trying to weasel my way up the chain.

Let me know, and thanks.

[Shadowjack]

'67-back are tangential on both ends. '68-up are tangential on one end, ground flat on the other.
SJ

[Karch]

Originally Posted by Shadowjack

'67-back are tangential on both ends. '68-up are tangential on one end, ground flat on the other.
SJ

Thanks for the clarification...I knew there was a change around that time.

[Ken K]

68 and up front replacement springs are not ground flat on top like the factory springs. The replacement springs are like the 67 and earlier springs on top. I use a 68 and latter spring in a earlier car because there is more selection and you can get higher spring rates without buying aftermarket springs.... The back springs are different. The 67 and up use a pig tail on both ends, the 66 and earler use a pig tail on the bottom only.

[Shadowjack]

Just happen to have a '67 GTO and a '69 Tempest here I'm swapping front springs on for higher-rates. The replacement '67 springs (from GW) are slightly collapsed on one end but otherwise tangential. The '69 springs (bought used, but supposed to be GW) are collapsed and ground flat on one end. The flattening isn't quite as substantial as the factory springs.
I actually had the '69 springs first and wanted to use them on the '67, so I looked at the underside of the frames. They both have a locator lip, but it's not very tall. The '67 has a coil pocket in the frame, the '69 has a flat surface. Which makes sense, the springs can be any number of coils for initial factory tuning for left-and-right side rates.
If you have had experience with the replacement '68-up springs not being flat on top, I would say that someone is either very cheap or uninformed and selling the same piece for all years.
SJ

[Ken K]

I have a brand new set of Moog 5400 that are still in the box. It even says something about the top of the spring might be different but will still work. I will have to look again to see how it is phrased. The top of the spring is like the 67 and earlier springs, I have 3 different sets of those. I have a set of the 5400 springs in a 68 Tempest wagon. I can tell you for a fact when they were installed that you could hold the the spring in the upper pocket and turn the spring, that you could feel the end of the spring lock at the end of the pocket. There are holes in the bottom control arms, those holes are a reference point for the end of the spring on the bottom. With the top of the spring locked in place, the end of the bottom spring is where it belongs.

[Ken K]

Moog 5536 springs have a spring rate of 488, the spring is 15 inches free height. That's the highest stock spring rate for the A body. Maurader had a set of after market springs with the same free height, it only droped the front of his car 3/4 inch. I have cut 2 coils out of a stock spring, the free height was 14.5 inches, that was border line too low. I would use the 5536 springs but I want a little bit more drop in the front. I use the 5400 springs because if I cut a coil, the free height is 15.5, the spring rate started at 360 before it was cut.

[Ken K]

Look at the picture of the upper spring pocket, this is a 1967. You can see where the end of the spring goes. The springs in the picture are Moog 5400.

[amcmike]

So for the front the 5536 sounds good for the front @ 488 lbs/in. How about the rear?

[Ken K]

I have not messed with the rear springs too much on 64-66 cars. The 67 and up cars have a good selection of rear springs avalable.

["Me"]

Hi gentlemen, Back from the weekend. Went to the IHRA Nationals, had a blast. First time my fiance saw a TF run, look on her face was priceless.

AMCMike: Sounds like your car is set up pretty much like where I am headed, I'm keeping the big sways at least for now. The car has aftermarket bushings but as I am tearing the frame apart I'll replace with Delrin. Only thing on your list I'm not doing is solid body mounts, I'm using poly. Have disks on the front and will do the rear as soon as I figure that out.
I have Adams book, and a few others, read them all when I was working on off-road suspensions. No books on that subject but a lot of the principals translate, both ways. Michigan roads are a bit like an off-road track, if you can't keep your tires on the road you can't accelerate. Took us two years to get the suspension right on the truck. Try revalving 12 Bilstiens every race until you get it right, arrr..
I'm a sports car nut, and have bought and sold several Muscle cars, including a Saleen Mustang because I didn't like driving them. I love this car and I am determined to make it work the way I want it.
One thing I am going to look into is Tein Flex coilovers. I used a set on my last Miata with the EDFC in cab adjustment. Best of both worlds that way, twist the dial and change the shock valving. May not work but I am going to call them and see.

Coolfish, no sense sending you the wrong coils, rather someone use them.

Karch, see you have a 65, so we know they will fit. When I yank them I will get ahold of you. They are stiff, I see that you drag race, sure you want this stiff? I drove this car before it was wrecked, and it did hook up well, but the 389 is just barely more than stock.

Thanks guys, Larry

[Shadowjack]

My '67 frame and springs are just like those, Ken, but my '69 is completely flat up in there: no pocket. I've already got it back together or I'd get a pic.
Anybody think a '68 is like a '67? I don't think it should be, but you never know.
SJ

[Ken K]

The area around the shock hole is different on a 68. I have a picture of the outside of the box, for some reason it's kicking it back and won't let me post it...They call the type of spring that is ground flat a tapered end. The 67 and earlier type of spring is called a square end. It says this spring is manufactured with a square end, both configurations are completely interchangeable.

[Shadowjack]

Opposite to what my Moog catalog shows: the ground-flat end is "square", the end where the coil just runs out is "tangential" and the end where the coils get smaller is a pigtail, which is on the rears, as you pointed out.
SJ

[Ken K]

The picture on the box shows the top of the springs, it still uses white paint to identify the tops of the springs. Both the style that is ground flat and the style that is not ground flat is are called square ends, tapered and untapered. 5400 springs are listed for 68 and latter cars even though they will work in the earler cars. The springs came in the latest box they use now, they are new stock springs. The catalogs change, I think they still use the old style listing on applications so some of them list the applications by the year.

[Karch]

Originally Posted by Me

Hi gentlemen, Back from the weekend. Went to the IHRA Nationals, had a blast. First time my fiance saw a TF run, look on her face was priceless.

AMCMike: Sounds like your car is set up pretty much like where I am headed, I'm keeping the big sways at least for now. The car has aftermarket bushings but as I am tearing the frame apart I'll replace with Delrin. Only thing on your list I'm not doing is solid body mounts, I'm using poly. Have disks on the front and will do the rear as soon as I figure that out.
I have Adams book, and a few others, read them all when I was working on off-road suspensions. No books on that subject but a lot of the principals translate, both ways. Michigan roads are a bit like an off-road track, if you can't keep your tires on the road you can't accelerate. Took us two years to get the suspension right on the truck. Try revalving 12 Bilstiens every race until you get it right, arrr..
I'm a sports car nut, and have bought and sold several Muscle cars, including a Saleen Mustang because I didn't like driving them. I love this car and I am determined to make it work the way I want it.
One thing I am going to look into is Tein Flex coilovers. I used a set on my last Miata with the EDFC in cab adjustment. Best of both worlds that way, twist the dial and change the shock valving. May not work but I am going to call them and see.

Coolfish, no sense sending you the wrong coils, rather someone use them.

Karch, see you have a 65, so we know they will fit. When I yank them I will get ahold of you. They are stiff, I see that you drag race, sure you want this stiff? I drove this car before it was wrecked, and it did hook up well, but the 389 is just barely more than stock.

Thanks guys, Larry

Thanks Larry.

Yes, I'd still like them. If they don't work, I'll pass them off to someone else here on PY.

I put in some different springs back in 1998 or so that I used cross-reference in my Moog catalog. They were stiffer, with a larger wire size, but when installed they were too tall.

I wound (pun ) up cutting and cutting to get the right height, so they got too stiff.

My 60's were at 2.0 seconds, and my et's were high 12's, with a 107mph, so I need a lot of help on the 60'.

Let me know and thanks in advance.