[Dick Boneske]

I believe we are all concerned about the future of our hobby--especially the two organizations that hold it all together. The low attendance at the 2014 POCI and GTOAA conventions is alarming. Maybe we need to have POCI/GTOAA Co-Ventions every year instead of trying to support two. Has anyone noticed that, for 2015, even though the POCI and GTOAA conventions are close to each other--Louisville, KY and Columbus, IN,--the dates are not conducive to going to both in one trip? GTOAA is July 7-11 and POCI is July 21-25.

We were excited to see the two 2015 conventions in close proximity to each other, but after seeing the dates, most of us have already ruled out going to both--at least those of us who would travel a substantial distance to Louisville, KY or Columbus, IN.

I certainly don't have answers for our concerns, but maybe this forum is an appropriate place to voice our opinions about how to improve participation in our yearly get-togethers. For most of us, the conventions are the only time we see each other for a full year. That makes these events important, not just for the car show/swap meet, but a chance to re-connect with old friends that have a common interest--PONTIACS! This PY forum is great in that it allows us to stay in contact, but it's not like seeing each other face-to-face once in awhile!

[Jerry H.]

For many years the conventions were back to back, even if they were in distance cities. This allowed anyone wanting to attend both to be able to take off two weeks together and do so. As you pointed out, it makes no sense with these being so close together not being held in back to back weeks. It's like the clubs are trying to compete with each other. If this happens, both will suffer.

I know that CoVentions are a big undertaking, but both clubs need to take a long hard look at this.

Also, they need to look at one centralized location instead of floating it around. I know they want to make it closer to where more members can attend, but what good is it if is not big enough to support some aspects (such as drag racing)? The national marque clubs with the most successful national meets have them in the same cities each year. Just look at Norwak, or the 'Pontiac Nationals' No national club affiliation, but it seems to grow every year.

As a side note, most of us old timers are just that, OLD. We need young blood to flow into these national clubs, shows, and meets. I recently attended the 'Pontiacs at Pigieon Forge' show in Tennessee. It has been growing and had over 200 Pontiacs this year. In years past I would have scoffed at the large number of later model Firebirds, Trans Ams, GTO's and other Pontiacs. But along with these cars comes the next generation of Pontiac lover and these are the folks we need to maintain our clubs and our hobby. Did I spend a lot of time with these cars? No, but I did appreciate the fact that these guys and gals brought them out to support our hobby. If we don't welcome them with open arms, our hobby will be gone.

[64CatalinaVentura]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

, or the 'Pontiac Nationals' No national club affiliation, but it seems to grow every year.

As a side note, most of us old timers are just that, OLD. We need young blood to flow into these national clubs, shows, and meets. I recently attended the 'Pontiacs at Pigieon Forge' show in Tennessee. It has been growing and had over 200 Pontiacs this year. In years past I would have scoffed at the large number of later model Firebirds, Trans Ams, GTO's and other Pontiacs. But along with these cars comes the next generation of Pontiac lover and these are the folks we need to maintain our clubs and our hobby. Did I spend a lot of time with these cars? No, but I did appreciate the fact that these guys and gals brought them out to support our hobby. If we don't welcome them with open arms, our hobby will be gone.

Well said sir. I'm the VP of the local Oldsmobile club (OCA chapter) and am in my 20's. The entire old car hobby faces these issues. At out Oldsmobile Night cruise last Monday we had cars from 1936 to 1991. It was great seeing so many eras of cars and owners there to celebrate the rich history of a brand/industry.

[2manyponchos]

I agree with most comments above, and will state that the date and location for the GTOAA convention for 2015 has been locked in for over 2 years at this point. We have been planning extensively for those 2 years, even while hosting the 2013 Co-Vention. I was heart broken when the Louisville convention dates and location were announced. POCI had no other option and it was decided within the last year. As a staff member of one club and recently appointed BoD for the other, this concerns me as it does many of you. At this point, we have to make the best of the hand we've been dealt. I hope both conventions are successful, but going to be difficult with GTOAA, then POCI 2 week later, then Norwalk 2 weeks later. Poor planning from one of the organizations, but I am just one voice...
Best regards, Doug Pulskamp

[higgenslake]

If the conventions are locked in 2 years in advance, where are the 2016 conventions?

[Dick Boneske]

Originally Posted by higgenslake

If the conventions are locked in 2 years in advance, where are the 2016 conventions?

That would really be nice to know so we could plan with our families! I believe 2017 is the next Co-Vention. Is that correct?

[2manyponchos]

I did not say conventions were locked in 2 years in advance for both organizations. I only communicated that the host clubs for 2015 GTOAA have been planning for the last 2 years. We signed a formal contract for 2015 with the national club at the 2013 show, so we were locked 2 years out. That is typical protocol for GTOAA. The convention coordinator is actively looking out for locations 3-4 years after 2015. They have a pretty good road map.

POCI struggles to generate interest at the local club level for hosting national shows. As I stated above they have been behind the 8 ball since 2013 regarding locations and need interest. Anyone that has interest...please contact Art Barrett and Larry Crider to discuss future opportunities. It takes volunteers to do these shows!

Regarding Co-Ventions, having played a major role in 2009 and 2013, I think they are great! It is an awesome deal for participants and vendors. Our crew still hasn't caught up from 2009 much less 2013. There are not any in the foreseeable future that are planned, especially not 2017. There is still a significant amount of animosity at the national level of both organizations regarding Co-Ventions. It is tough to schedule all the activities in 5 days for both clubs without some overlap and someone feeling slighted. I'm all for the joint shows and think it is the best thing for the hobby. Anyone interested, give me a call. Will gladly consult and give the positives/negatives.

It is also not customary to release future locations more than 1 year out. This is done on purpose so as to not deter people from holding out on attending during the present year. It is out of respect for the current host club and sort of a tradition for both organizations.

[PaulatFast]

What Doug said. Before I get in trouble!

[PaulatFast]

The 2015 GTOAA location was found in 2010. The BOD and Convention coordinator were informed immediately that we had a strong interest. The initial presentation was actually made in 2012. They agreed to "Hold the date" and the official contract was signed in 2013. The GTOAA is already talking to clubs about 2018 at this point.

I wish I could say the same for POCI. The 2009 convention had no local chapter. the 2011 convention in Bowling Green had no local chapter. the 2012 convention used a former GTOAA Chapter as the host club. We created a POCI chapter to host the 2013 CoVention and the 2014 convention was co-hosted by a GTOAA Chapter with no local POCI chapter involved. Next year the NEW Louisville POCI Chspter, also mostly made up of a firmer GTOAA chapter, will co-host with the national organization. Disturbing trend if you ask me.

[Jerry H.]

Paul, it goes way back. We had a POCI chapter in Atlanta in the early 80's and won the bid to host the 1984 POCI Nationals. Less than a year later our chapter disbanded and never recovered. I started the SEGTOA chapter of the GTOAA chapter in 1985 with 12 charter members, 4 or 5 of those were leftovers from the old POCI chapter. The GTOAA chapter is still going strong today with around 80 members; and having hosted the GTOAA Nationals in 1997.

[GTO JUDGE]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

For many years the conventions were back to back, even if they were in distance cities. This allowed anyone wanting to attend both to be able to take off two weeks together and do so. As you pointed out, it makes no sense with these being so close together not being held in back to back weeks. It's like the clubs are trying to compete with each other. If this happens, both will suffer.

I know that CoVentions are a big undertaking, but both clubs need to take a long hard look at this.

Also, they need to look at one centralized location instead of floating it around. I know they want to make it closer to where more members can attend, but what good is it if is not big enough to support some aspects (such as drag racing)? The national marque clubs with the most successful national meets have them in the same cities each year. Just look at Norwak, or the 'Pontiac Nationals' No national club affiliation, but it seems to grow every year.

As a side note, most of us old timers are just that, OLD. We need young blood to flow into these national clubs, shows, and meets. I recently attended the 'Pontiacs at Pigieon Forge' show in Tennessee. It has been growing and had over 200 Pontiacs this year. In years past I would have scoffed at the large number of later model Firebirds, Trans Ams, GTO's and other Pontiacs. But along with these cars comes the next generation of Pontiac lover and these are the folks we need to maintain our clubs and our hobby. Did I spend a lot of time with these cars? No, but I did appreciate the fact that these guys and gals brought them out to support our hobby. If we don't welcome them with open arms, our hobby will be gone.

If I may add to this statement in bold: Many of the "new blood" purchased a new gen GTO. I was one in 2005. I along with MANY have experienced from those with classics hostility at meets. In Parsippany NJ at the GTOAA Eastern Regional for example, while sitting under a shade tree, an owner of a classic GTO out of the blue approached me and began blasting the new gen GTOs that were in the showfield. As I sat there listening to his ignorance I bit my lip. After listening to his tirade I told him that was my 2005 over there and asked him to accompany me to my car.

After educating him on this car and his looking down his nose at these cars, and how his attitude was I told him, its attitudes like his that will ruin this hobby. As the older guys fade out and no longer can or are willing to attend these functions its the younger guys that will have to carry on. He stood there like a jackass a victim of his own ignorant attitude.

Hes not the only one. A HUGE divide was created by those with a disdain for the new gens. They are taking their disdain out on the guys who own these like its their fault these cars were built. I had guys blast my 2005 and told me why don't I buy a classic. When I tell them I have one of each they quickly try and cover their ignorance.

I cannot tell you how many new gen GTO owners I recruited for the GTOAA. THEY are the future and those whose who are retiring from this hobby question why this hobby is on a downward spiral. Once the new gen owners are turned off they are more than likely not going to even consider going to a National or Regional Meet.

Most new gen GTO owners who experienced the dissing from old gen GTO owners turned their backs on showing their car, they are tired of the ones who walk around making fun of them and their car. I have seen first hand old gen GTO owners who absolutely refuse to even look at those cars. This is unfortunate. Most are the ones complaining on low attendance at national meets.

I have engaged MANY new gen GTO owners with fliers to regional meets and to the Nationals.... Many tell me, WHY? All I get is grief from the older guys we are not wanted.

It's not their fault this style car was designed and built. All they did was buy one and tried to mix in with those who refuse to acknowledge them. I recall the same ignorance on the 73-74 GTOs back in the day.

The future of this GTO hobby will go down with those retiring from it if new blood doesn't revive it. So much hostility toward them has harmed it, I know I seen it and experienced it. This is really unfortunate, just because some refuse to acknowledge those cars as GTOs documents prove otherwise.

[PaulatFast]

Wow! East coast guys are rude I guess. The GTOAA has rolled out the carpet for the new era cars. Around here, we welcome and enjoy new era cars. I have never seen any animosity directed red at the new era owners. In 07 at Columbus I actually saw and read the exact opposite. The new era guys all stayed together and I read more than one comment about the hill-billy old school GTO guys.

Truth be told there is not enough newer cars out there to make a difference in the future, although I myself will own one someday!

[PaulatFast]

And for the record... In the 80's when I bought my 68 GTO, I was also not accepted in the "hobby". Back then I heard more than once that real GTO's had chrome bumpers. Ignorance has always been, and will always be, part of life.

[GTO JUDGE]

There are new gen GTO owners who are guilty as well........ so it goes on on both sides. Many I talk to congregate together because of the divide so I am told. I promote all so I hear it from both sides.

However........ I know of new Gen Camaro guys and Old Gen Camaro guys....... doing the same so its not just GTO. GM Carlisle is turning into a new Gen Camaro Show. A rift was created a few years ago that drove most of the old gen Camaros out. Engaging the new gen Camaro guys..... their gripes mirror the GTO one......

For the sake of this hobby ......... all should respect and get along ........... we're all on the same team.

[GTO JUDGE]

....... Looking forward to 2015 .... have my room booked at the Clarion........

[Jerry H.]

Originally Posted by PaulatFast

And for the record... In the 80's when I bought my 68 GTO, I was also not accepted in the "hobby". Back then I heard more than once that real GTO's had chrome bumpers. Ignorance has always been, and will always be, part of life.

I can remember those days Paul!

[Jerry H.]

Paul are you at liberty to give out the hotel info for the 2015 GTOAA Covention where we can go ahead and make our plans?

[PaulatFast]

Clarion Resort and Conference Center, Columbus, IN. 812-372-1541

Taking reservations now!

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by GTO JUDGE

If I may add to this statement in bold: Many of the "new blood" purchased a new gen GTO. I was one in 2005. ... The future of this GTO hobby will go down with those retiring from it if new blood doesn't revive it. So much hostility toward them has harmed it, I know I seen it and experienced it. This is really unfortunate, just because some refuse to acknowledge those cars as GTOs documents prove otherwise.

I appreciate your feedback.

I am in the younger crowd but am a DarkSider, not a late-model Pontiac man. I am also very concerned about the future of the car 'lifestyle' (hope that makes sense) and see that many clubs are concerned about the long-er term state of it all.

I sincerely hope that the POCI and GTOAA stay around a long time, that newer models get equal time in their respective magazines, and BOTH SIDES pull it together: The 60-somethings who can't/don't/won't give the newer Pontiacers cars the cred they deserve, and the YOUNG GUYS who (and I have personally experienced this) are often at best indifferent towards the people who dig those boaty tanks with round (GLASS) headlights.

[MCronkGTO]

I have been a member of both organizations since the late 80's and have seen it all. I participated at GTOAA and POCI National Conventions in concourse and popular vote classes as well as drag racing.

My observations are more about human behavior than anything else. It is very difficult to please everyone when we all have different tastes. However there is never "room" for being closed minded or condescending towards other hobbyists. That kind of attitude will surely be the death of the hobby.

For the older generation the cars we seek out are becoming less "mainstream". Just like we did the newer generation will seek out the cars they grew up with to collect and cherish. There will always be an "appreciation" for old cars but their popularity will wane as the generation that grew up with them fades away.

I am sure the economy also had an impact on participation at the Nationals. Many senior members may no longer have the financial resources or health to attend National meets.

Now the good news. The hobby is nothing more than a collection of like minded people. This can be it's strongest resource if we embrace that philosophy. After all it really is the people we meet and share this bond with that makes it so unique and interesting. However to do this we have to be open minded and supportive of each other regardless of our personal tastes. That is what made our country so strong in the beginning and can keep our hobby moving forward.

MarkC