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7t4mula · 02-13-2005, 01:47 PM

Looking for some words of wisdom (encouragement) here... My daughters 3.1 blew a head gasket (or possibly just intake gasket), but it sucked all the coolant into the crankase and overheated big time.

Not sure how bad the damage is, but it sure is full of sludge. The more I thought about it, I feel that it would be cheaper/wiser to replace the motor than redo the heads/gaskets on a 141K mi. motor.

How difficult is the swap, and what years would cleanly interchange. I think I would sty with the 3.1L as much as I now hate this motor for doing this to us.

I would like to keep this car for her if possible, she just got her license and had it for a whole 3 weeks!

Let me know what you think, thanks!

7t4mula · 02-13-2005, 01:47 PM

Looking for some words of wisdom (encouragement) here... My daughters 3.1 blew a head gasket (or possibly just intake gasket), but it sucked all the coolant into the crankase and overheated big time.

Not sure how bad the damage is, but it sure is full of sludge. The more I thought about it, I feel that it would be cheaper/wiser to replace the motor than redo the heads/gaskets on a 141K mi. motor.

How difficult is the swap, and what years would cleanly interchange. I think I would sty with the 3.1L as much as I now hate this motor for doing this to us.

I would like to keep this car for her if possible, she just got her license and had it for a whole 3 weeks!

Let me know what you think, thanks!

meanolegoat · 02-13-2005, 07:19 PM

A 3.1 is a very easy change. Find a low mile "piece" with the same vin designation (8th digit). Most commonly we end up changing timing cover, exhaust manifolds, occasionally the oil pan. I definately recommend swapping the intake (probably where your leak is). Use all your original fuel rail, crank sensor, and anything else you can swap off the old engine. Its still running right??? I've seen people use "the yard stuff" instead of theirs and then wonder why it wont start, skips, runs rough, etc....I'd swap any input/output sensor, and engine "management" part from the old to new. 3.1's can be had down here for approx 5-700.00 for a nice one.
"mean"

Formula428 · 02-13-2005, 10:28 PM

Yeah, what he said. All 3100s are basically the same, but don't confuse them with the older 3.1 engine. Swapping in a different size engine really wouldn't be wise, as the pcm, PROM, and sensors are calibrated for the 3100.

7t4mula · 02-14-2005, 06:52 AM

Thanks guys! Yes, I agree, you want to try and stick with as close as possible to the original powerplant and use all the externals/sensors from the original motor. Yes it is still running...

Changing the intake, fuel rail, and manifold gasket is a great idea for sure. It is gonna go sooner or later as I found out!

So how do I find out exactly what years interchange? Like if I find a 95 or 97, as long as it has an "M" engine code in the VIN I'm good to go?

i think it would be a good idea for me to come up with a service manual for this adventure too. Probably save a lot of headaches and frustration. I'll have to start searching for that too...

Mr_GTO · 02-14-2005, 03:02 PM

www.gmgoodwrench.com has new motors that have a warranty and are GM pieces. Might be a good idea to put one of those units in and you will get the CORRECT motor for your application.

Mr_GTO · 02-14-2005, 03:12 PM

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/resource...s%20Catalog%20(August%202004).pdf

PDF File, page 71, Part Number 12539087

GM PART # 12539087
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $100.00
GM LIST: $3,771.58
OUR PRICE: $2,258.43

Bill Eveland · 02-14-2005, 03:37 PM

I don't think the car is putting a new engine in personally, I just sold my 96 Grand am with 160K for $1500. See what the car is worth before you go dropping in a bunch of money.
There are junk yards around here that give a 90 warranty and engines between 600-800 bucks. I would call around to see what was available first.
If your going to keep the car a long time ,spend the money and get the delco engine, they have a 3yr/50 warranty.

Bill Eveland · 02-14-2005, 03:41 PM

The Grand Am I replaced the intake gaskets at 50k and there was quite a bit of sludge under the lower intake , cleaned it up and drove it 110k more miles. I also changed at gaskets at 140k. Just had a slight tick from the lifters.

7t4mula · 02-14-2005, 04:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
http://www.gmgoodwrench.com has new motors that have a warranty and are GM pieces. Might be a good idea to put one of those units in and you will get the CORRECT motor for your application. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, that thought had entered my mind, I put a new crate motor in my 98 Tahoe at 106K and have over 162K on it now... It's jst that I only paid $1,500 for the car, and I don't really see ever getting that back out of it.

7t4mula · 02-14-2005, 04:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Eveland:
The Grand Am I replaced the intake gaskets at 50k and there was quite a bit of sludge under the lower intake , cleaned it up and drove it 110k more miles. I also changed at gaskets at 140k. Just had a slight tick from the lifters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Bill, what is the best way to tell if it is just an intake gasket vs. the head gasket? I guess I could pull the intake and look at what I see there right? Already did a compression test, and they all checked between 160-170 psi.

meanolegoat · 02-14-2005, 07:02 PM

Blown head gaskets are few and far between on the 3.1's. If it is blown it will be skipping, smoking etc...The intake can leak internally or externally. Our success with a bad internal blow is mixed....We usually clean up the top end best we can, while letting the bottom end drain off. Change oil several times. I've seen several of them come back with broken cams. Also if it is a head gasket, have the heads checked...its not the gasket that fails--the head warps
"mean"

7t4mula · 02-14-2005, 07:24 PM

Yup, that's kind of what I thought too... It didn't run rough at all, smoke white out the pipe or anything like that. I wish I would have been there to see exactly what happened or how long it had overheated. This could determine the extent of the damage, possible warped head, etc.

So what causes a broken cam? Lifters that are plugged up, or just lack of oil to the cam itself cause of plugged oil passages?

That would sure be bad news!

Bill Eveland · 02-15-2005, 09:57 AM

Were any of the plugs wet when you took them out from antifreeze? Iv'e seen intake gaskets cause a misfire because the antifreeze gets sucked into the runners.
One way to check is to either put the suspect cylinder on tdc and use a compression tester hose and presserurize the cylinder and see if antifreeze comes out the overflow. The other is to dissamble and inspect for damage.

7t4mula · 02-15-2005, 11:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bill Eveland:
Were any of the plugs wet when you took them out from antifreeze?

One way to check is to either put the suspect cylinder on tdc and use a compression tester hose and presserurize the cylinder and see if antifreeze comes out the overflow. The other is to dissamble and inspect for damage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the plugs looked pretty dry actually. I did start it several times on the tow ride home to be able to brake properly though, and I don't know if this would dry them off at all. Didn't want to take out the rear of my Tahoe in the process! Two dead cars in the driveway are enough right now! LOL

I have heard of pressurizing the coolant sytem to check for leaks, but never the inverse which you spoke of. Sounds logical, I should probaly consider doing this first, and then pull that intake and check for damage there. Thanks!

meanolegoat · 02-15-2005, 07:23 PM

7t4--My personal thoughts on the cam failure/breakage. They snap midway in the block.
Always towed in--died while driving. We usuallly drive them in the shop; oil light on (because it breaks on the oil pump drive end, at rear of block) and skipping like hell. Find valvetrain movement on 3 cylinders. I believe with the oil degradation it takes the bearings out, esp the cam bearings. Not sure of the pressure switch location on them these days...but they used to take it off there at the oil filter on the front of the block (I'm showing my age i know 3.1t). The front wheel drive 3.1 is a long lasting/enduring engine but will not tolerate lack of maintenance or coolant intrusion into the oiling system. As a chebby-caddy dealer we never tear em down for a post-mortem, It's not worth the effort--if the cams broke at 100k+ you need and engine..right???
"mean"

7t4mula · 02-24-2005, 08:02 PM

Well... Still haven't made any progress on this yet. The snow just keeps piling up on the hood out there! Hard to get fired up about motor work when it's winter.

Been thinking about the option of the new motor as I have been seeing so many on Ebay lately like this one.

Sample of new 3.1L sold on Ebay

Where are these guys getting them, that's what I'd like to know? I could go that route too, which I do like the thought of knowing it will last a while... It's hard to spend almost as much as I paid for the whole car though.

7t4mula · 03-03-2005, 05:52 AM

Well, I ended up buying one of these surplus crate motors for about $1,500. More than what I originally wanted to spend but got caught up in the bidding, and this one is local so i can pick it up...

Just wondering how these guys got them and for how much. Here is another with a reserve price that has been met, current bid at only $800!

There is a material tag in this ad. Any thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7957810529

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