#21  
Old 11-25-2019, 03:23 PM
Diego Diego is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,116
Default

Is the two-tone car Antique Gold?

  #22  
Old 11-25-2019, 03:27 PM
north's Avatar
north north is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,388
Default

No, it's CR with a black roof and black buckets. M20 car with typical options, sold new in Minnesota.

__________________
My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #23  
Old 11-25-2019, 03:37 PM
Diego Diego is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,116
Default

There's a gold one in whomever has the online registry. Now I know of two, though that seems marginally fewer than the 1970s that I know.

  #24  
Old 11-25-2019, 05:38 PM
muscle_collector's Avatar
muscle_collector muscle_collector is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 3,742
Default

how many ra4 cars are in your list?

  #25  
Old 11-28-2019, 06:37 PM
north's Avatar
north north is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,388
Default

I have 22 RAIV judges and another 26 non Judges with RAIV

__________________
My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #26  
Old 11-28-2019, 06:50 PM
north's Avatar
north north is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,388
Default

A bit of info about the first non pattern Judges by plant...

Atlanta...
earliest shipping date of a non-pattern is Feb 28th, was also the lowest VIN 121XXX

Baltimore...
earliest shipping date is Jan 23rd, also lowest VIN 151XXX (actually two cars shipped same day) but both to Canada
the next earliest is the infamous power antenna Judge Jan 28, another Canadian car
the earliest US shipped car is Feb 14VIN 158XXX

Framingham:
Jan 27th 125XXX

Arlington:
earliest date is Feb 28th (141XXX) but a different car shipped in March has a lower VIN 135XXX (other cars with about the same VIN shipped feb 4th)

Fremont:
earliest date and VIN, Jan 31st, 115XXX

So it looks like non pattern cars became available for shipment to Canada in the third week of January, then California the very end of January and then mid February for the rest of the US

__________________
My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #27  
Old 11-28-2019, 07:02 PM
north's Avatar
north north is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,388
Default

There are several early non pattern judges from the California plant in very early february but none (other than Baltimore cars bound for Canada) from the other plants.

FYI, I didn't include the home plant because they only began A body production in mid April. Which is why the Baltimore plant by early May produced almost no GTO hardtops, just convertibles (The home plant only produced the hardtop version of the GTO during the 69 model year).

Also, all Canadian convertibles were built in Baltimore and Canadian hardtops came from Baltimore and then Pontiac.

The only plants that produced GTO's for overseas was Baltimore and Pontiac.

__________________
My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #28  
Old 12-26-2019, 02:00 PM
aldiaz1959 aldiaz1959 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
Must have been a ghost in the system when Aldiaz posted.

He also made the same post in another Judge Section thread at the same time.

I got a notify at the same time for it as well.



the "Early Production Judge ?????" thread

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...9&goto=newpost



But neither thread was bumped into the first listing page when i came on the site.

Aldiaz - did you make the posts back in May , or just yesterday ?









Are you referring to Judges earlier than his from Framingham ?

Those would be interesting documents to see if that is the case.


I’m more lost than ever trying determine how early is early that my judge was
Made m
Is it the third one? Seventeenth?
Can anyone say where exactly in production numbers ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  #29  
Old 12-26-2019, 05:58 PM
johnta1's Avatar
johnta1 johnta1 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: now sunny Florida!
Posts: 21,237
Default

aldiaz1959's build sheet has Jan 9th date.
Cowl tag 01B
Shipped to zone codes 29 991 first. (which 'pattern Judges' would have been)

The Navy Industrial Yard Building #2 is interesting possibly.
(shipped to not charged to)

Maybe an Overseas thing?


__________________
John Wallace - johnta1
Pontiac Power RULES !!!
www.wallaceracing.com

Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova
Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats

KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever!


"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates
  #30  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:43 AM
aldiaz1959 aldiaz1959 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 6
Default

I’m still confused . Does anyone know the order of production of the Judge . Was my judge the first pattern judge produced?
The first to come off the Framingham plant ?
Does my judge any significant historic significance?
I know it’s early but exactly how early?
Thanks
Al Diaz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  #31  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:43 AM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: INJUN Territory, Red State Merica!
Posts: 9,568
Default

Al, there is absolutely no way to determine which '69 Judge was first, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Pontiac built too many of them.

__________________
Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms.
  #32  
Old 09-14-2020, 12:57 PM
LOAFINGTON77109 LOAFINGTON77109 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 12
Default HELP IDENTIFYING MY JUDGE

Quote:
Originally Posted by north View Post
Completed entering all the DON's and did a study of the Judges, some interesting tidbits...

Special DON Judges:
... 23% of the Judges (discounting illegible or blocked but not blank DON's) have the special short zone order numbers). This translates into about 1,600 Judges produced with this type of DON
... I was wrong about plants not having 2 cars with same special DON. I have 2 Atlanta Cars with order 00043 and two Baltimore cars with 59 (in both cases not the same dealer)
... For these reasons I suspect each of the 27 zone offices issued their own DON's. If they ordered 50-150 each averaging 60-70 each this would give you the 2,000 cars which my 24% isn't to far off from.
... The earliest invoice date with a special DON was jan 31st and the last was April 8th with the bulk being in Feb and first half of March
... lowest special DON is 17 and highest is 144 (bulk are between 20 and 80)
... All are pattern cars if you include M13 (3 speed manual) as pattern...
...16 M40 cars, 41 M20 and 3 M13
...10 M40's and 3 M20's had AC
...43 with black guts, 17 with parchment
...no export cars

Regular DON Judges:
... earliest US sold car is jan 31st (several earlier cars but they were all export)
... 59% are CR,
... first CR car with a Cordova is Feb 22, I have 5 other CR cars with Cordova before the first non CR car (Matador) on March 10th. sounds like non pattern but still CR was possible in second half of February but other colors were not released until March (delay due to stripes?)
... I can't find any pattern cars with normal DON's.

To Clarify my understanding of pattern car is as follows...
Hardtops only all with CR (no Vinyl top), black or parchment buckets with the following options...
All Pattern cars had the following 10 options...Judge, PDB, power steering, console, rallye gauges with clock, AM radio, deluxe belts with front shoulder, soft ray (all windows), remote mirror and Safe-T-Track (HD or regular duty if AC)
Pattern cars could have the M13 (no charge), the M20 or the M40.
Hood tach was present on all cars except if equipped with M40
AC was optional on all transmissions and it changed the HD STT to regular duty due to 3.23 axle ratio
all pattern cars will have 11, 12 or 13 options


Im very interested in the data youve acquired over what would appear to be a long time and lots of hours of work. Based on what I am reading from this thread, if i gave you information off of my PHS, would you be able to determine if my Judge is a pattern Judge?

  #33  
Old 09-14-2020, 01:10 PM
LOAFINGTON77109 LOAFINGTON77109 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 12
Default

Based on all of the great information here on this thread...if i provide a copy of my PHS order sheet...would one or some of you be able to determine what I actually have?

  #34  
Old 09-14-2020, 01:23 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,419
Default

If you post the Invoice it can be determined .
The build date from the trim tag helps too.

First glance is to check your dealer order number on your Invoice
(looking for 000xx)
This applies to about 99% of Patterns

Second glance would be a build date between 01B and 02B
another 99%'er

Third glance would be the standardized option content
only a few variances on overall content regarding the Pattern cars

  #35  
Old 09-14-2020, 01:28 PM
LOAFINGTON77109 LOAFINGTON77109 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 12
Default

Ahhh, ok. My Judge is an 02D. with the end of the VIN being A122092. DON is 63128. Identification Number PAA555275

  #36  
Old 09-14-2020, 01:41 PM
LOAFINGTON77109 LOAFINGTON77109 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 12
Default

Here is my invoice
Attached Files
File Type: pdf INVOICE.pdf (143.0 KB, 206 views)

  #37  
Old 09-14-2020, 01:52 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,419
Default

If yours is a 3spd Manual or 4spd Manual -
see if it has the exact same options as this Pattern example (from Atlanta plant) built very close to yours.
Built before (2C) - but invoiced after (562177)

It could be a "close copy" or "copy" to a Pattern

In most normal cases, the Patterns -Invoice #- will start with a Z.
Where yours starts with a P

** It can still be very useful for you to share your Invoice -
North could add to his data base
Wallace is always looking for additional Selling Dealer data for his public data base of Dealer Name / Dealer ID #

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	69 Judge pattern 2C build 00021 ATL.jpg
Views:	441
Size:	74.0 KB
ID:	549556  

  #38  
Old 09-14-2020, 02:00 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,419
Default

Thanks for sharing your Invoice with us.
Don't see too many Judge's with Vinyl Top, so North will like adding that one to his data base - if he doesn't already have it.

It's definitely not a Pattern Car
But has nice equipment on it for sure.

And Welcome to the PY Forum

  #39  
Old 09-14-2020, 02:12 PM
LOAFINGTON77109 LOAFINGTON77109 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 12
Default

Mine is a 4spd, M-20 car.

  #40  
Old 09-14-2020, 02:30 PM
LOAFINGTON77109 LOAFINGTON77109 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 12
Default

Yeah, the cordova tops arent too common. I wonder where mine falls in the history of the Judge as being an earlier factory cordova Judge.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:03 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017