[Skip Fix]

So how many of you all have a street car driven on the street for miles and how is the water temp? Especially if in hot climates? I have a 455 block I was thinking of using for a street/strip build that is hard blocked to the bottom of the freeze plugs.

[steve25]

You should have no issues as I did that with a 455 block that was under a blower in my photo here, and all I had was a 4 row rad and wide blade stainless flex fan.

My blower drive pulley slowed down the water pump a good amount and that would make my water temp at stop lights creep up to 210, but one I started to move again the temp would drop back down within 1/2 mile of driving come right back down to being 12 degrees above my stat’s temp rating.

In short I don’t think you will find hardly a difference!

[77 TRASHCAN]

Jim Hand made reference of his "filled" 455 engine/block having NO cooling issues, in his book...

[Speargun]

I put 15000 miles on a filled 455+.060 in my '67 bird in the Florida heat.
That said, I had numerous cooling issues I had to work out. After tearing the engine down, I think the root problem was that the hard block was a bad batch & started chipping away and blocked some of the cooling passages. It was bad enough that it blocked most of the tubes in the radiator within the first few hundred miles.

Here's a list of what I would do on a new setup:
Put a filter in the upper radiator hose to keep any chips out of the radiator.
The one I have is glass so you can see when it's plugged and easily unscrews for cleaning.

Remove the thermostat. Unless you're running too cool, let that water FLOW!

Clearance the water pump divider plate.

Install upper & lower baffles to direct air into the radiator. At least for a 1st gen bird.

Install black water pipe foam insulation between the radiator & support to seal any gaps.

Full shroud & GOOD electric puller fan(s) (SPAL Extreme duty fans are worth the $$$)
OR... Factory type shroud and 7 blade fan properly spaced.

OIL TEMP GAUGE!!!
Dino oil starts breaking down around 275* and synthetic around 325*.
You want at least 212* to steam off any condensation and I didn't worry about the temp until it hit 250*-260*.
215*-230*+/- was normal iirc.

I never had much trouble with the oil temps around town, but when I got on the interstate cruising at 3000-3500 rpms, the oil temp would start creeping up into the danger zone. I would think that a smaller journal engine would take longer to bring up the oil temp.

Without hard block chips blocking cooling passages, you shouldn't have as much trouble cooling as I did.

[PontiacJim1959]

No personal experience with this, but in my reading, it came up that the oil temps can increase because you do not have the water cooling in the lower cylinders to absorb heat from the oil in the bottom end. It was suggested to add an oil cooler IF you saw higher oil temps. So if you go this route, I would add the oil temp gauge and monitor it, especially on a good 100 degree summer day.

I have also read that it depends on what composite material you use as to which is best. I talked to my machinist about this and he said some of these materials shrink quite a bit when they set. Some will even deteriorate over time. He has some stuff he uses that did not shrink, did not break down, and cured as hard as a rock. He actually put some down on his cement flooring I think 20 years ago and it gets heavy traffic from feet and engine carts. He says it is still as good as the day he put it down. He said it was expensive, and he would not tell me what it was. LOL

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959

No personal experience with this, but in my reading, it came up that the oil temps can increase because you do not have the water cooling in the lower cylinders to absorb heat from the oil in the bottom end. It was suggested to add an oil cooler IF you saw higher oil temps. So if you go this route, I would add the oil temp gauge and monitor it, especially on a good 100 degree summer day.

I have also read that it depends on what composite material you use as to which is best. I talked to my machinist about this and he said some of these materials shrink quite a bit when they set. Some will even deteriorate over time. He has some stuff he uses that did not shrink, did not break down, and cured as hard as a rock. He actually put some down on his cement flooring I think 20 years ago and it gets heavy traffic from feet and engine carts. He says it is still as good as the day he put it down. He said it was expensive, and he would not tell me what it was. LOL

I made a few posts about the cooling of the block changing when you removed the water in the lower part of the cylinder water jackets many years ago. What you have posted is very true. But most times a decent oil cooler can give you the proper oil cooling AND the block will have the higher strength at the same time. Just more $$$. Cop cars get the oil coolers for the same reasons, high chase speeds of long duration and the water system just cannot keep up so the oil cooler system helps out with the cooling.

Tom V.

[ponjohn]

From what I have read here, the issue, if you have one, is oil temp.

How much weight does that add?

[PontiacJim1959]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I made a few posts about the cooling of the block changing when you removed the water in the lower part of the cylinder water jackets many years ago. What you have posted is very true. But most times a decent oil cooler can give you the proper oil cooling AND the block will have the higher strength at the same time. Just more $$$. Cop cars get the oil coolers for the same reasons, high chase speeds of long duration and the water system just cannot keep up so the oil cooler system helps out with the cooling.

Tom V.

Thanks for jumping in on that. Maybe the OP will do a search and pull up your past posts and get a better idea on your recommendations.

Jim

[Skip Fix]

One of my Mopar buddies said that increased oil temp is an issue for BB Mopars hardblocked because they already do not have as much water jackets down there.

[Skip Fix]

Tom V thanks for the input as usual and all you others.

I know I've read lots of posts over the years about it being OK , but we are talking Texas heat here! Why I wanted some hot climate input, more be a street than strip, will get a Canton pan,one built to throw that M/T intake on Tom!!

This block still has very visible deck stampings for fitting the pistons! I never quite understood a "fitted block" until I visited on of my 409 buddies in Dallas Pat Lobb of Lobb Toyota in Allen has multiple Z-11 409 cars, a factory 409 fuel injection motor, a 65 Hemi SS factory car. He had sum of the factory block/engine blueprints as big as a conference table that for a 409 had the different size pistons and their letter code. So the had different size pistons they "fit" to the block. Pat like to show his stuff off if you are ever in Dallas/Allen.

[74Grandville]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

From what I have read here, the issue, if you have one, is oil temp.

How much weight does that add?

I've done it and the block is definitly heavy. probably 30+ lbs more. just a guess

[Steve C.]

RACE ENGINEERING: "ULTIMATE" BLOCK FILLER

Will not crack or separate with age.

https://www.raceeng.com/p-28620-ulti...ach-bf-25.aspx


.

[74Grandville]

I ran a block on the street that was filled and it was fine. the only issue i ran into though, Don't use steel freeze plugs. The center ones that were touching the cement rotted out quick. luckily i was able to replace them in the car..

[Steve C.]

Taken in part from Jim Butler comments, Q&A section, PE magazine March/April 1997:

They built two engines for Rodney's '82 T/A street car. Both engines had 455 blocks. One was filled and the other wasn't. The filled block ran 10 to 15 degrees cooler than the unfilled block. It was reported upon tear-down and inspection, the cylinder walls on the unfilled block were seen to be scratched and scored from excess friction. When measured with a dial bore gauge, it was found to be out of round. The filled block was smooth and bore round. He confirmed you do not lose significant coolant capacity by filling the block. However, the difference in the amount of friction is much improved.

That comment came from this thread on the subject :
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=block+fill

.

[firechicken]

My 455 is filled to bottom of water pump holes. Always runs dead on the 180 stat. Oil temps from 200 - 230 depending on conditions. No issues for over 10 years.

[tom s]

Skip,my 303 short deck had a short fill.Never looked at oil temps but in never ran hot.Always ran Mobil 1 10-30.Tom

[Half-Inch Stud]

Half- Filled 455 + 060 that needs the electric fan on Hot summer highways and waay extended summer Traffic lights. Otherwise elec fann is off, and no Mech fan at all.

[Mike Davis]

My 421 is filled to the bottom of the freeze plugs and bored .090. Never had a problem in the GA heat. Even hot lapping at the track. I run a factory style aluminum Radiator, 1 electric fan and Meziere water pump. Of course the furthest I have driven it is only around 40 miles one way.

[steve25]

Good point here gang about the oil cooler!

I had already had one my 455 due to not liking the increased oil temps i saw over my 400 motor due to the bigger mains and stroke.

This likely did help in me not observing any temp increase with the half fill I did.

[ponjohn]

What oil temp becomes a concern?