[alleyCat]

Winter, bored....why not clean things up. You Street folks have helped me thru a cam change which make a world of difference along with changing the look to a mashup of years to clean up the look. I just installed the 1963 alternator bracket to replace some universal one. With the pulleys that are on the car the bracket has a 1” spacer from the head to bracket and the P/s pump has a 3/4 “ spacer. It all works perfect but the spacers kind of bug me. What would I need to get everything mounted factory correct-ish ?

[pfilean]

Apparently you are working on a 61. I would question whether your pulleys are really 61. I'm not sure which alternator bracket you have so I don't know which crank pulley the belt is supposed to ride in. But original 61 used several pulley sets and other years used other pulley sets. Not necessarily interchangeable although they would still bolt onto the crank. But as you seem to need the spacers on the PS bracket I suspect the crank pulley set in not 61.
Attached is what was correct on 61.
You have to look close to see which belt was in front or behind.
It looks like you have a WP pulley which is not correct for a non AC application Yours is a "top hat" style where as the original non AC was a more cone shape. Which you may be able to see in this picture. Your pulley looks more AC style.
Check the next picture and look close to see the cone style. It is used in AC applications to make space for the compressor belt to go past the pulley.
And since your belts apparently line up from crank to WP to PS with the spacer it seems like your crank pulley is not the proper backspacing for a 61 non AC application. In the non AC the PS is the front belt but is the rear for AC application. The backspacing changes from non AC to AC.

[alleyCat]

Originally Posted by pfilean

Apparently you are working on a 61. I would question whether your pulleys are really 61. I'm not sure which alternator bracket you have so I don't know which crank pulley the belt is supposed to ride in. But original 61 used several pulley sets and other years used other pulley sets. Not necessarily interchangeable although they would still bolt onto the crank. But as you seem to need the spacers on the PS bracket I suspect the crank pulley set in not 61.
Attached is what was correct on 61.
You have to look close to see which belt was in front or behind.
It looks like you have a WP pulley which is not correct for a non AC application Yours is a "top hat" style where as the original non AC was a more cone shape. Which you may be able to see in this picture. Your pulley looks more AC style.
Check the next picture and look close to see the cone style. It is used in AC applications to make space for the compressor belt to go past the pulley.
And since your belts apparently line up from crank to WP to PS with the spacer it seems like your crank pulley is not the proper backspacing for a 61 non AC application. In the non AC the PS is the front belt but is the rear for AC application. The backspacing changes from non AC to AC.

The alternator bracket is for 63 Pontiac. The P/S may be 61 but not sure. The setup is routed like the P/S diagram you show except its an alernator now and the 63 bracket bolts up perfect. I know the crank and w/p pulley is where the problem lies . The engine is a 69 350 so everything was just made to work. I removed a universal alternator bracket and replaced it with the 63 unit just a few days ago.. the belts line up perfectly with the spacers. P/S belt is on inside and Alt is outside. Here is a close pic of the aftermarket crank pulley. Crank is 6” and so is w/p. I replaced the w/p pulley this summer. There was an 8” pulley on w/p and I was u derdriving the waterpump with that setup. Car runs very cool with that setup. My goal is to just make brackets bolt tight to the block like they should. Just for my own sanity !

['ol Pinion head]

alleycat, noticed when you first put up pics the '69 & later 11 bolt timing cover. Is it running the '69 only (4" hub height) 11 boot wp, or the 1970 & later 4 1/2" tall wp?

[pfilean]

A 69 should have the later 4 bolt pulley to crank arrangement not the earlier 6 bolt. I think because of a change in timing mark style that all pulley back spacings are likely different. On 61 the same PS mount worked on either non AC or AC with no spacers. But they did get different PS pulleys of different diameter and different back spacing. And of course the crank and WP pulleys also changed in diameter and backspacing. Unfortunately the parts book paged I sent say nothing of backspacing.

Your crank pullet sooks like a machined aluminum which would not be a stock part.

[alleyCat]

The water pump is 4 1/2 tall. Yes the crank pulley is a 4 bolt and it is some aftermarket aluminum piece. Probably going to be a pandora’s box trying to piece pulleys together. This setup works fine. Just bothers me but this may be a case of “leave it alone” !

[Scott Thelander]

put 69 stuff back on it

[alleyCat]

Dont have any 69 stuff. Want to keep alternator on right side. Just gonna have to live with the spacers.

['ol Pinion head]

Sticking with an 11 bolt wp, gotta go with a 4" hub height wp if you want to try & line up with earlier accessories.

[alleyCat]

Any chance you would have the parts book page for 63 model year ? I think I would have to mimic 1963 since its a one year only alternator setup. Im gonna go out and measure and stare at it for a while tomorrow. I may remove the spacers and mount both brackets without them and see what what the 4” pump would gain me.

[pfilean]

Here is the 63 but it won't do you any good. The 63 had the 6 mounting bolt pulley and damper set. You later engine has the 4 bolt set. I think the change over year was 68 or maybe 67. Not sure without checking and my parts book is a 66 and doesn't cover that.

Without changing everything from the timing cover forward I don't think you can get where you are trying to go. You would want a 63-66 timing cover to get the later more than four bolt water pump. That plus a different crank flange (6 bolt hole and I hope it fits the crank snout) and compatible damper set plus the 63 pulleys (nearly unobtainable).

Maybe just clean up what you have (the PS bracket should be black), say "that's nice", and have a long cruise.

[alleyCat]

Originally Posted by pfilean

Here is the 63 but it won't do you any good. The 63 had the 6 mounting bolt pulley and damper set. You later engine has the 4 bolt set. I think the change over year was 68 or maybe 67. Not sure without checking and my parts book is a 66 and doesn't cover that.

Without changing everything from the timing cover forward I don't think you can get where you are trying to go. You would want a 63-66 timing cover to get the later more than four bolt water pump. That plus a different crank flange (6 bolt hole and I hope it fits the crank snout) and compatible damper set plus the 63 pulleys (nearly unobtainable).

Maybe just clean up what you have (the PS bracket should be black), say "that's nice", and have a long cruise.

Yessir ! Thats exactly what I am going to do. Its never going to becorrect sojust leave it how it is. Im surprised it worked asgood asitdoes. Itsvery strong. It all lines up so I will just enjoy it. That alternator bracket is one hell of a stout piece !

['ol Pinion head]

Several things to note:
- from '64-67 the same part number Pontiac V8 single groove (manual strg) wp pulley was used.
By '68 production, all Pontiac V8 pulleys had wider groove & were deeper than previous Pontiac V8 pulleys (exc early SD pulleys). This actually happened for the '67 model year with the manual steering single groove pulleys being the lone holdouts. The '68 single groove manual strg wp pulley was "centered" the same, but had wider deeper groove than previous '64-67 single groove wp pulley. Have examples of both.
-in '68, when the 4 bolt style crank damper was introduced, the timing chain cover was redesigned, some consider it the "hybrid" 8 bolt timing cover. '67 & 68 Pontiac V8's actually shared an AC application wp pulley in many applications. This wp pulley, the "886" lined up with the corresponding cranking pulleys whether they were the '67 6 bolt style, or the '68-70 4 bolt attachment style ("842" w the AC supplemental "843" behind it).
- '67-70 Power Steering (exc '70.5 Firebird) utilized the same brackets & one of three PS pumps, The difference in these factory pumps came down to shape of the return outlet coming out of the canister, & which pressure valve was factory installed. The PS pulley used was the "900" or "901". Either lines up with the '67 6 bolt crank pulley stack or the '68-70 style.

-All the large '63 alt mounting bracket does is properly position the alt off the passenger side to line up with the other pulleys. WITHOUT mismatching early pulleys, all one has to do is get the passenger side mounted alternator to line up with whichever style of later timing cover & late '60's Pontiac V8 accessories. Know this can be done, as have seen numerous instances of it. Over the years I've put together a ton of Conversion bracket & pulley sets, nearly all to install later timing covers & '67-70 style Alt/PS accessories into '64-66's.

-Desiring a deep groove Alt pulley for a 10 DN alternator, they are out there, reproduced for the late '60's through 1970 HP Chevy V8 usage. Years ago I ran a similar deep groove alt pulley made by Moroso.

[alleyCat]

I was out there staring at it today. Was going to remove all the spacers and see where it lies but didnt . My main objective was to get rid of the cheap chinese universal looking alternater bracket and use the 63 cast aluminum piece. The w.p. Pulley is a 6” # 481040XT. The crank is a 6” billet double pulley with about an inch of front spacing. I thought maybe I could get a flat crank pulley and a 4” early water pump but I dont think any of that will work since I have 1” spacers behing the alternator bracket and 3/4” spacer behing the p/s pump. It looks and works much better with the 63 alt bracket. The spacers bug me but dont thinkI can figure out a combination that will work with the 63 bracket .